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Post by SoaponaRope [BK] on May 8, 2015 18:49:31 GMT
Purpose: Maximize physical damage output of deck through Zora Marauder hero for use specifically in Guild Map. Proven deck strategies with Wight and Demon Hunter have reigned as the only two viable options for producing massive damage output, the idea is to create a new contender earlier that does not limit newbies to ~10k Damage in the Guild Maps. Goals: - Create the most easily-accessible & 'quickly' assembled Guild Map deck for newer FTP players that is comparable in ideal situations to a high-end Wight Deck
- Setup the deck to be able to Fast-Forward to avoid numerous bugs that occur in long matches in the Guild Map
- Attain full sustain with the least amount of dependency on RNG
Benefits: - Allow younger guilds and newer players to advance quickly through Guild Maps and acquire more Gold & Guild Credits when it's actually needed
- Deck should be designed in a way that hitting enemy hero is not a massive penalty / game ending as it is with Wight and Demon Hunter
- Ability to Skip levels allows better use of time, much higher chance to count damage towards total dungeon health
Theory: Utilize Zora Marauder's Battlewill Skill to fullest potential (20% + 4% per Rank DMG taken is converted to ATK.)- Avoid dependency on RNG as much as possible
- Avoid common strategies of Frost Armor (reduced damage intake means reduced ATK gains)
- Avoid common strategies of Lockdowns (reduced damage intake means reduced ATK gains)
- Avoid cripple, weakness and other similar damage reduction debuffs (reduced damage intake means reduced ATK gains)
- Buff HP of your creatures enough to survive through full round of enemy attacks and spells, this likely means a same-faction deck
- Mass Heal maximized with the attempt of regenerating 100% of damage taken each round
- Utilize Unbound (preferred) and Immunity (less preferred) to avoid Lockdowns on your own creatures to ensure heals are reliable even through tougher encounters
Unique Issues: - Select levels have creatures that hit too hard without Frost armor, such as Venom Tyrant, that will ensure one hit / one round KOs. This can be overcome by using a few creatures with Frost armor specifically designed to negate these heavy hitters.
- Select levels create enough AOE DPS is dealt that no amount of Mass Heals will sustain the team without use of Immunity which is dependency on RNG
- Enough creatures with the "Bless" spell need to be incorporated to sustain hero through
- Zora Marauder base HP may be low and difficult to protect from curse decks
- Titania will completely demolish most solutions for this deck
Potential creature spotlights in order of availability:Treant Guide - 818 HP @ L10, 933 HP @ L15- Extremely easy to obtain
- Can be swapped out with 1 or 2 Frost Ragers to maintain Synergy for Heavy Tanking
- Pre-loaded with Mass Heal 200hp + Elven Salve 200 HP
- No Protection from Lockdowns (Cannot Learn)
- No Bless / Can Learn through Meld
Full Build of Level 10s:
- First Play = Round 8
- First Play = Mass Heal 1000 HP per Turn
- First Play = Total HP is 1818 HP each
- Full Play = Round 22
- Full Play = Mass Heal 2000 HP per Turn
- Full Play = Total HP is 2818 HP each
Blood Warlock - 780 HP @ L10, 880 HP @ L15
- Easy to obtain
- Pre-loaded with Mass Heal 150hp + Bless 6
- No Stacking HP Buff (Earth Totem) / Can Learn through Meld
- Synergizes with HP buff from Hero
- No protection from Lockdowns (Cannot Learn)
Full Build of Level 10s:
- First Play = Round 8
- First Play = Mass Heal 750 HP per Turn
- First Play = Total HP is 780 HP each
- Full Play = Round 22
- Full Play = Mass Heal 1500 HP per Turn
- Full Play = Total HP is 780 - 1380 HP each
Oracle - 1410 HP @ L10, 1715 @ L15
- Arduous to Obtain
- Great base HP stats
- Pre-Loaded with Bless 10 + Mass Heal 150hp + Sage Advice 350 HP
- No Protection from Lockdowns / Can Learn Immunity or Unbound through Melding
Full Build of Level 10s: - First Play = Round 8
- First Play = Mass Heal 750 HP per Turn
- First Play = Total HP is 3160 HP each
- Full Play = Round 22
- Full Play = Mass Heal 1500 HP per Turn
- Full Play = Total HP is 4910 HP each
I'd like to explore this further but am out of time for now. I know there are a few great options in 5-star creatures like Ash Beast, Mythril Drone and Sekhmet, but I'm mostly looking for low-end solutions. Ill want to run the numbers on some of the Guild Map levels to see how sustainable these are (its totally possible there is no way to survive with these numbers) but I'd absolutely be interested in any input you guys have. Thanks!
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Post by derpy✪NFS on May 8, 2015 23:13:51 GMT
Interesting idea. There are a few maps this could work- there are also many where it runs into issues.
-magic maps can tear apart your healing with one or two lockdowns -retreat will kill all your tempo -self-buffing creatures can be tough to deal with.
Problem is, that accounts for a vast majority of maps. Zora is situationally decent, but you still need a very solid deck to use him. Could be a nice solution for some maps though, mass treant guides on a physical map would be fun.
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Post by ℜ★Xega on May 9, 2015 4:04:00 GMT
I still use Zora from time to time but I don't believe I ever broke 500k with it. One early disposal or retreat in a 10 v 10 guild battle with Zora and it's game over.
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Post by Hitmus2✪NFS(xerks) on May 10, 2015 7:44:01 GMT
This is a good option and I commend this post for supporting alot of newbies and old players that needs changes or explore new options on Guild Maps. Thanks SoaponaRope! You can Sticky this Soap if you want, its your call! Xerks
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Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on May 10, 2015 9:37:31 GMT
I don't think you would get many Oracles in the time window or be able to meld more than 3 or 4 copies of the same creature which hurts Warlock. Something like 2 Treant Guide (Bless 7), 3 Frost Rager (Bless 7), 6 Treant Guide, 3 Royal Dragons and a Moon Guardian seems doable though if you were buying human boosters.
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Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on May 10, 2015 9:47:12 GMT
Off the top of my head I don't remember running into maps that did more than 900 magic damage on average + attacks. I think most of the ones you need 4 stoneskin for do like 200 magic damage.
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Post by Sephiroth [BK] on May 13, 2015 2:29:22 GMT
Good thread.
I use my zora to finish maps off. Never really tried it with a full map though because of other options, we all know about.
Me personally. I love using my bloodletter with Zora, or any life sap critters really. FA hinders the skills ability to increase your Att by limiting thr amount of damage taken... So life sap critters take full damage and their attacks grow at the rates full potential. You always have some oracles or warlocks to aid health regeneration at the start of the guild battle until the critter "finds it's legs" then they grow and grow.
Ursa Major is also ok because of his anger and you do still need some frost armor in the mix, with this setup. I've done almost 200k with this set up to clear a map. Would be interesting to try it on all full map...
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Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on May 13, 2015 3:41:31 GMT
How often ballpark would Zora's skill trigger if you had say 8 Guides taking 1000 dmg per turn and 2 Ragers taking 500? Every 2 turns? Every 3?
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Post by Sephiroth [BK] on May 13, 2015 3:59:28 GMT
The situation I use zora in, you only need it to happen once. So my life sappers and blockers can gain momentum quickly. Doesn't stack after that so..
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Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on May 13, 2015 4:01:02 GMT
Once it triggers it works every turn after that? How are you guys not breaking 1.5 mil dmg with him?
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Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on May 13, 2015 4:02:38 GMT
Would need to spend a few weeks or so building a dedicated deck obviously.
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Post by Sephiroth [BK] on May 13, 2015 4:26:54 GMT
Once it triggers it works every turn after that? How are you guys not breaking 1.5 mil dmg with him? Because wight. EVERY bit of damage that occurs will turn into Att bonuses. Even blaze or toxic damage. Retaliation also counts etc etc. So theres no need for it to stack as it stays with the critter til battles end or it dies. Like I said. I only use him to clean up maps when it's down to 5 or less critters and even then it's still situational as to what's left. In spirit of this thread. It would be interesting to see someone a bit newer to the game focus on zora and guild maps because there is a lot of potential for nice damage amounts. It really is a good skill for guild maps.
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Post by Sephiroth [BK] on May 15, 2015 6:46:15 GMT
This pic above shows Zora's skill 'battleblow' in affect, mid battle. As you can see, bloodletters Att has come up nicely in the early stages of the battle. Now at round 37 in the 2nd pic and it shows how bloodletter or more importantly creatures with life sap, can be build up a good working relationship with Zora. Note- The growth of attack from battlewill on the critters with frost armor. Theres gains but no where like bloodletters gains. Also note that Ursa Majors Att is better again with extra growth through his anger skill. I prefer using a ursa major > frost ragers for the reason above but I also put in a few frost ragers just incase I get a bad draw. That and they can heal themselves which can be handy while setting up, early on. One other thing I do is- I pretty much take hero damage til all the cards in my first initial hand can be played at once. Which can be tricky if you don't get a good draw and also zora being a 2☆ hero, he doesn't have a huge amount of life to play with so tread carefully there. With this style of guild map offence. Apart from obvious reasons, I find blood warlocks can be a nice inclusion to get the damage up wit a few critters left, as gas cloud stacks for extra damage. Plus being neander, they can receive faction buffs from Zora.
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Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on May 15, 2015 7:05:46 GMT
Yea, oracle and warlock are probably the best options in the long run. It just takes like 5 times longer to farm up a team that can hit the 2k hp 1.5k mass heal mark and even that is cutting it close. The thing I don't like about the faction buffs is the last few guys you play don't get them and a mass heal team is only as good as it's weakest link. Life sap and mass heal seems like an either or. They don't really synergize.
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Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on May 15, 2015 7:12:21 GMT
I think 10 unmelded oracles would do insane damage.
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Post by Sephiroth [BK] on May 15, 2015 10:40:42 GMT
Life sap and mass heal seems like an either or. They don't really synergize. Well for the zora + Lifesap set up. The warlocks and oracles are in there for their bless abilities more than their mass heal skill. Although I will say the mass heal Helps the life sappers at the start of a battle while Zora's battlewill procs and and allows the life sapper to maintain their own hp. Warlocks are good because they have gas cloud so they can add damage through out the whole fight. Oracle's lack in that department. But any other circumstance, Oracle > warlock.
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Post by Sithys [BK] on May 17, 2015 4:16:19 GMT
RColossus + sap/battleblow/mass heal (immunity and it's own dmg add + human, so with oracles wow) - working on this myself atm, I think amazing potential, and my personal fave, working on frostacle 2 right now most importantly, shard farmable. Some not so easy melding options, but still fairly common and easily obtainable creatures: Pit lord + unbound (faction hp) Hell knight + sap (faction hp, battleblow) Centaur chief + unbound/sap/battleblow depending on group composition. (warlust - just wow)
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Post by ferrett✪NFS on May 24, 2015 7:39:15 GMT
I am fairly new to the game but looking through the options I am looking to try a bunch of bloody barons with a mixture of bless and dark pact melds.
I seem to be able to get them fairly easily as they are 3 star and they will be cheap to get to 15 and meld compared to 4 and 5 stars.
Obviously will struggle against anything with retreat or frost armor but not sure how to get around that with new player cards.
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Post by vamp on May 24, 2015 13:23:51 GMT
I am fairly new to the game but looking through the options I am looking to try a bunch of bloody barons with a mixture of bless and dark pact melds. I seem to be able to get them fairly easily as they are 3 star and they will be cheap to get to 15 and meld compared to 4 and 5 stars. Obviously will struggle against anything with retreat or frost armor but not sure how to get around that with new player cards. There aren't many creatures with retreat in the first few guild maps (first is 2-6?), I think alert guard is the only stoneskin 3* but he's not that common. Grand mage / graboid require map 10 open. For fa creatures, paladin is farmable (life sap) though it won't synergize. Or on a physical-only map you could stick a rager there.
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Post by SoaponaRope [BK] on May 24, 2015 14:40:07 GMT
There are some GREAT ideas here guys.
I'm almost done setting up the Faen version of this deck on 2 accounts so I'll have to let you know how it goes =)
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Post by voldrox [BK] on May 25, 2015 3:19:09 GMT
There are some GREAT ideas here guys. I'm almost done setting up the Faen version of this deck on 2 accounts so I'll have to let you know how it goes =) Great, do let us know.
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Post by Hitmus2✪NFS(xerks) on May 25, 2015 5:24:57 GMT
There are some GREAT ideas here guys. I'm almost done setting up the Faen version of this deck on 2 accounts so I'll have to let you know how it goes =) Can't wait Soap, I always read your posts, its super useful and really written with purpose and seriousness.
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Post by ferrett✪NFS on May 26, 2015 10:25:07 GMT
I am fairly new to the game but looking through the options I am looking to try a bunch of bloody barons with a mixture of bless and dark pact melds. I seem to be able to get them fairly easily as they are 3 star and they will be cheap to get to 15 and meld compared to 4 and 5 stars. Obviously will struggle against anything with retreat or frost armor but not sure how to get around that with new player cards. Been thinking about this and looking at what I have available will probably mix in some horned beasts/swordmasters/ other defensive 4* with fatigue 8 to lower in the incoming damage in case of disables and probably also add in a couple of pit minions with some form of defensive meld (Block, Dodge?) to give a couple turns of lock down until the fatigue kicks in and the attack damage gets high enough for life sap to self sustain. I am thinking 3 Barons with bless to keep the hero up. The horned beasts are farmable fairly early on and the only other forms of tempest are not overly easy for a new player to get. I don't see much other lock down options that hits the entire board, if I am wrong please correct me. Where possible would replace barons with hell knights + life sap and Panther chiefs + immunity. These would be the optimal creatures to use outside of the obvious sekhmet.
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Post by Sephiroth [BK] on May 26, 2015 14:59:02 GMT
I am fairly new to the game but looking through the options I am looking to try a bunch of bloody barons with a mixture of bless and dark pact melds. I seem to be able to get them fairly easily as they are 3 star and they will be cheap to get to 15 and meld compared to 4 and 5 stars. Obviously will struggle against anything with retreat or frost armor but not sure how to get around that with new player cards. Been thinking about this and looking at what I have available will probably mix in some horned beasts/swordmasters/ other defensive 4* with fatigue 8 to lower in the incoming damage in case of disables and probably also add in a couple of pit minions with some form of defensive meld (Block, Dodge?) to give a couple turns of lock down until the fatigue kicks in and the attack damage gets high enough for life sap to self sustain. I am thinking 3 Barons with bless to keep the hero up. The horned beasts are farmable fairly early on and the only other forms of tempest are not overly easy for a new player to get. I don't see much other lock down options that hits the entire board, if I am wrong please correct me. Where possible would replace barons with hell knights + life sap and Panther chiefs + immunity. These would be the optimal creatures to use outside of the obvious sekhmet. Fatigue works against Zora's battlewill. Prob a mix of fa and mass heal will be needed to help your Lifesap critters find their find feet.
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Post by ferrett✪NFS on May 27, 2015 0:15:59 GMT
Fatigue works against Zora's battlewill. Prob a mix of fa and mass heal will be needed to help your Lifesap critters find their find feet. Thanks for the critique While this is true will probably still get a reasonable amount of damage increase from magic and other damage, the issue with not lowering the damage of the creatures is if the barons, who have quite low hp due to being 3 stars are disabled they will get killed before they can life sap hp back. Reducing the attack damage would keep them alive longer. Cant use FA on 3 stars and mass heal has the same problem as disable. While the overall damage from the deck might be lower the idea is to first get a cheap deck that can sustain for a long time and then work on increasing the damage.
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Boxing Kangaroo
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Free-to-play... The grind is real!
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Post by Sephiroth [BK] on May 27, 2015 4:38:48 GMT
Fatigue works against Zora's battlewill. Prob a mix of fa and mass heal will be needed to help your Lifesap critters find their find feet. Thanks for the critique While this is true will probably still get a reasonable amount of damage increase from magic and other damage, the issue with not lowering the damage of the creatures is if the barons, who have quite low hp due to being 3 stars are disabled they will get killed before they can life sap hp back. Reducing the attack damage would keep them alive longer. Cant use FA on 3 stars and mass heal has the same problem as disable. While the overall damage from the deck might be lower the idea is to first get a cheap deck that can sustain for a long time and then work on increasing the damage. Could meld them barons with unholy pact and let their health jump up to aid survivability? With the Lifesap and zora set up, I try and use only a few life sappers as my potent damage makers and add some FA to help with things. Having the FA allows you a bit of room to move at the start when it comes to placing your cards down and ensures you get your bless/mass healers down the right end of the board.
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Post by ferrett✪NFS on May 27, 2015 5:05:46 GMT
I have 2 barons done with unholy pact now, and a couple more barons on their way.
Will try it out with full lifesap and FA/massheal and see where I get to.
Should be able to start testing in a week or so.
Thanks for the help
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Post by stuuu✪NFS on May 27, 2015 18:20:38 GMT
Zora is totally a viable replacement for Wight. Good thing is you can overload the left and not have to worry about mantra. Bad thing is you don't get Cripple. +1 on Bloodletter for whoever said that. Panther Chief with Battleblow 8 is nice too. Graboid with life sap is a winner. Perhaps I'll try for some 2mil+ damage and post a SS for proof of concept.
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Post by andypk on May 27, 2015 19:00:48 GMT
Zora is totally a viable replacement for Wight. Good thing is you can overload the left and not have to worry about mantra. Bad thing is you don't get Cripple. +1 on Bloodletter for whoever said that. Panther Chief with Battleblow 8 is nice too. Graboid with life sap is a winner. Perhaps I'll try for some 2mil+ damage and post a SS for proof of concept. Snow Harlot says hi. Frost armor ignores everyone without bullseye. Zora is not a viable replacement for Wight. Very limited where it can work. One curious attempt might be to use stabthrough and Zora to take out the hero. Especially with the new rune feature that can supposedly cause double damage to the hero.
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Post by vamp on May 27, 2015 20:13:52 GMT
Zora is totally a viable replacement for Wight. Good thing is you can overload the left and not have to worry about mantra. Bad thing is you don't get Cripple. +1 on Bloodletter for whoever said that. Panther Chief with Battleblow 8 is nice too. Graboid with life sap is a winner. Perhaps I'll try for some 2mil+ damage and post a SS for proof of concept. Snow Harlot says hi. Frost armor ignores everyone without bullseye. Zora is not a viable replacement for Wight. Very limited where it can work. One curious attempt might be to use stabthrough and Zora to take out the hero. Especially with the new rune feature that can supposedly cause double damage to the hero. Depends what you're trying to achieve. Sure, you can't kill snow harlots, but FA? lifesap/fa paladin is very farmable. Besides, maps 1-4? No snow harlots. Think of the top guilds, running out of contribution and deliberately limiting damage to 100k / map attempt. You don't need wight to hit 100k, so in that sense zora is a decent replacement. I think you're right it's more limited, but I've definitely used zora > wight in some circumstances (3 fafnirs left? Stick swordmasters left and oracles right) I think it's been discussed here before and killing the hero just ends your map attempt, but the creatures are still alive.
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