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Post by grzechu✪NFS on Apr 10, 2015 13:59:16 GMT
To freshen up this topic a little... ;-) Guys, i am lets say average player, not f2p but not buying like crazy, and learning many things too late ;-) Like farming Oracles Anyway, i am reading this forum for some time, focusing on more things. Now its (obviously this topic) maxing dmg in guild maps. I am getting a little confused and would appreciate if someone clear some things From what i understand now, there are two basic ways of maxing dmg in guild maps: 1) with Wight and its sweet ability, 2) without Wight but with creatures staying alive and increasing attack, right? The key of 1) is staying alive, healing creatures and not having more of them then opponent. Then Death Curse does its job. But - not having more creatures (healers for example) means it is hard, because the healers must be pumped up (frost armor) to stay alive. What deck, or how many Oracles with FA are needed do that? Or FRagers with Bless? Sounds like a loong process to get them with all gold and melds, right? But so many people still doing it. Is it correct that with Wight "clean" healers are unusable? 2) is not for as great dmg as with Wight, but still top ranks i think. I did it accordingly to some post on the forum when fighting only when there are 5 (preferably 4) creatures left on the field. (Using mostly either Mawrek to heal a bit, or Zara to increase Ursa's dmg). This, i assume, needs 5 (as many as opponnents creatures) tanks and healers right to them if not melded, or tanks + tanked healers in number of 5. If something its not correct, please do clarify Now, taking all of that into consideration, what kind of decks you have to have to deal max dmg (~300k) at the map's start when all 10 creatures are on the field? I just cannot see it somehow, cant imagine how that works
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Post by artdz on Apr 10, 2015 15:46:34 GMT
It depends on the map for sure but depending how tuned the guild map deck is you can deal massive damage even against 10 creatures new level.
Healers do not need to be 'pumped up'. Instead use Cripple and weaken to get the enemy creatures damage to 0. In the end you'll need 2 Bless 10's. Enough healing to negate the enemy magic damage and Wight.
I haven't had Wight for long (only level 2) but I did like ~530k on 1-2 when 1-2 was just opened at 0% using this strategy. Unfortunately, in order for this to work when there's more magic damage i'll need more oracle melds for the healing.
Another decent strategy is spiky bits. Easy way to get 50-100k on levels with alot of magic damage.
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Post by grzechu✪NFS on Apr 10, 2015 21:44:28 GMT
One more question: Ursa Major is useless with Wight because of its Stabthrough, causing Mantra release, right?
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Post by ℜ★Xega on Apr 11, 2015 1:24:10 GMT
One more question: Ursa Major is useless with Wight because of its Stabthrough, causing Mantra release, right? Yes
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 14:29:28 GMT
Just got the question: "But what if I'm not there yet? How can I contribute if I can't get the best cards/hero? Can I suggest a far simpler option? I just use a deck of half Blood Warlock, half frost rager. They don't have to be melded or anything, but it doesn't hurt. Just play your frost armor in front. Stacking high damage is super, but if you don't have a way to outheal their direct damage you're not going to last long. The frost ragers buff eachother so you don't have to worry about healing for the first few rounds, and blood warlocks do up to 900 damage, 900 heals, and high hero heals each round. Once I get three warlocks out I'm self-sustaining. Cleared multiple guild map levels this way. Unless you start losing warlocks, expect to go until round 50. This is even better after you've downed a few creatures. Any build with 4 of one and 6 of the other is fine, as is 5 of each. This is also an effective option for lowbies who still want to contribute and get some cash from guild map. Don't have to clear Devagati or Ragnarock just to start exploring for the right shards. You can explore 3-2 and 6-1 for frost rager and blood warlock, though most players have at least one or two of each by the time they get to world 6. I would also suggest adding a burn skill for added damage. Flame witch works, but everybody gets a Flame Brave to start off with, so just use that. The sweet spot seems to be [1xFlame Brave, 5xFrost Rager, 4xBlood Warlock]. With 5 ragers, you'll likely have three out in your first four turns, and you can outheal their direct hero damage with 3 BW, but 4 works for a little extra poison damage and just in case one kicks the bucket on you. If you don't have 10 spots in your deck yet, I suggest removing a FR, then a BR until you're at capacity (eg - 7 slots? 1xFB, 3xFR, 3xBW). For hero, I would definitely choose either Zora Marauder with Neander Vitality or Patriarch if you have him. The WORST heroes you can have? Agni and Tauro Brute. Agni does literally nothing and TB stabs himself in the face, then does nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 14:19:27 GMT
Just got the question: "But what if I'm not there yet? How can I contribute if I can't get the best cards/hero? Can I suggest a far simpler option? I just use a deck of half Blood Warlock, half frost rager. They don't have to be melded or anything, but it doesn't hurt. Just play your frost armor in front. Stacking high damage is super, but if you don't have a way to outheal their direct damage you're not going to last long. The frost ragers buff eachother so you don't have to worry about healing for the first few rounds, and blood warlocks do up to 900 damage, 900 heals, and high hero heals each round. Once I get three warlocks out I'm self-sustaining. Cleared multiple guild map levels this way. Unless you start losing warlocks, expect to go until round 50. This is even better after you've downed a few creatures. Any build with 4 of one and 6 of the other is fine, as is 5 of each. This is also an effective option for lowbies who still want to contribute and get some cash from guild map. Don't have to clear Devagati or Ragnarock just to start exploring for the right shards. You can explore 3-2 and 6-1 for frost rager and blood warlock, though most players have at least one or two of each by the time they get to world 6. I would also suggest adding a burn skill for added damage. Flame witch works, but everybody gets a Flame Brave to start off with, so just use that. The sweet spot seems to be [1xFlame Brave, 5xFrost Rager, 4xBlood Warlock]. With 5 ragers, you'll likely have three out in your first four turns, and you can outheal their direct hero damage with 3 BW, but 4 works for a little extra poison damage and just in case one kicks the bucket on you. If you don't have 10 spots in your deck yet, I suggest removing a FR, then a BR until you're at capacity (eg - 7 slots? 1xFB, 3xFR, 3xBW). For hero, I would definitely choose either Zora Marauder with Neander Vitality or Patriarch if you have him. The WORST heroes you can have? Agni and Tauro Brute. Agni does literally nothing and TB stabs himself in the face, then does nothing. You could use mass warlock and rager, only problem is they have so little health, even with mass heal, two hits and they are dead, plus you need to be aware of the enemy creatures skills that can shut your creatures down. I've been testing different ways and another solution rather than mass melded 4 star creatures is mass oracles (with forst armor), mass frost rager with bless 10, and a couple of shut down creatures such as naga mistress and cave dragons with fatigue 8. Now you need Wight with cripple, the object of this game is just surviving as long as possible without hitting the enemy hero. i was able to get to round 86 without hitting the hero and did around 1.5 million damage. its all about wights death curse.
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Post by kennit on May 28, 2015 15:10:32 GMT
Very interesting topic! Any new tips?
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Post by RkrSteve on May 29, 2015 15:01:35 GMT
Kitsune does 10% max HP damage per round, stackable, and doesn't hit the hero. Doesn't take long for everything to start dying.
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Post by cpthowdy on May 29, 2015 16:36:17 GMT
Kitsune does 10% max HP damage per round, stackable, and doesn't hit the hero. Doesn't take long for everything to start dying. Don't tell igg this. They will cap it at 2k!!!
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Post by ℳarty on May 31, 2015 22:13:19 GMT
Kitsune does 10% max HP damage per round, stackable, and doesn't hit the hero. Doesn't take long for everything to start dying. Don't tell igg this. They will cap it at 2k!!! They allready know. They are only waiting to sell more boosters before nerfing it.
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Post by emersontm on Jun 1, 2015 1:54:47 GMT
The goal should not be to maximize damage. It should be to do just enough damage to maximize gold output, which I think is 100k damage = 500k gold. Considering how hard it is just to keep maps open, its in the entire guild's best interest to milk the map. Doing 1 million+ damage is leaving a ton of gold on the table, that your guild mates (or YOU tomorrow) could be using. Why do 1 million damage for 500k gold when you can do the minimum 100k damage for the same gold. By doing 1 million you are removing 4.5 million gold from the pool that should be going to your guild. It would be one thing if your guild is capable of reopening maps as soon as they are finished, but for most, youre map is going to have a lot of down time anyway, so there is no reason to rush.
The shards you get for killing creatures is weak, the clear time credit bonus is weak, the damage rank credit reward is weak too. Plus, with all the melding what's the greatest commodity? Gold. It will take some cooperation from your guild mates not to go nuts, but it really is in the best interest of everyone to milk it. It would certainly help out the weak members of your guild since they get to hit more days before the map is cleared and you have a long downtime before being able to open again. With guild battles happening 2x a week, you should have plenty of guild credits anyhow.
Think about it, is it better for you to hit 1.5million and close map? 500k gold for you. Nothing for your weak guild mate. Or hit for 100k daily and let your weak guild mate (20k damage) hit too. 4 million gold for you. 1 million for your guild mate.
You have to look at the big picture, not just "how do i hit for big numbers so I can feel elite".
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Post by kakola on Jun 1, 2015 5:54:38 GMT
The goal should not be to maximize damage. It should be to do just enough damage to maximize gold output, which I think is 100k damage = 500k gold. Considering how hard it is just to keep maps open, its in the entire guild's best interest to milk the map. Doing 1 million+ damage is leaving a ton of gold on the table, that your guild mates (or YOU tomorrow) could be using. Why do 1 million damage for 500k gold when you can do the minimum 100k damage for the same gold. By doing 1 million you are removing 4.5 million gold from the pool that should be going to your guild. It would be one thing if your guild is capable of reopening maps as soon as they are finished, but for most, youre map is going to have a lot of down time anyway, so there is no reason to rush. I think some top guilds are doing timed attacks to void damage. In other words people are attacking guild maps simultaneously without any damage regulation. Thats max gold and max shards for multiple players. This is solid strategy for highly organized guilds with lots of heavy hitters. In my guild we do regulation because we also want to mind the low hitters.
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Post by emersontm on Jun 1, 2015 20:04:10 GMT
The goal should not be to maximize damage. It should be to do just enough damage to maximize gold output, which I think is 100k damage = 500k gold. Considering how hard it is just to keep maps open, its in the entire guild's best interest to milk the map. Doing 1 million+ damage is leaving a ton of gold on the table, that your guild mates (or YOU tomorrow) could be using. Why do 1 million damage for 500k gold when you can do the minimum 100k damage for the same gold. By doing 1 million you are removing 4.5 million gold from the pool that should be going to your guild. It would be one thing if your guild is capable of reopening maps as soon as they are finished, but for most, youre map is going to have a lot of down time anyway, so there is no reason to rush. I think some top guilds are doing timed attacks to void damage. In other words people are attacking guild maps simultaneously without any damage regulation. Thats max gold and max shards for multiple players. This is solid strategy for highly organized guilds with lots of heavy hitters. In my guild we do regulation because we also want to mind the low hitters. That would certainly work too, but requires a lot of calculating. It would tougher for guilds that have members from different parts of the world.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 11:29:48 GMT
Good tips guys, I just farm wight (level 1) and found a video that suggesting berserk is somewhat is the best hero for guild maps, just want to know which is should i focus for guild maps? wight or berserk?
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Post by Hitmus✪NFS on Jun 2, 2015 12:08:29 GMT
both , but you can focus on wight first to level him up and berserker focus to get spiky beats 8+ (lev 1 enough)
Spiky for magic maps - wight for others let say.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 13:19:28 GMT
both , but you can focus on wight first to level him up and berserker focus to get spiky beats 8+ (lev 1 enough) Spiky for magic maps - wight for others let say. Thank you, so may i know berserker with correct deck and skill can go to how many damage? as for now my berserker need 21 more shards
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Post by Hitmus✪NFS on Jun 2, 2015 13:46:27 GMT
Berserker needs only neanders no special needs for super creatures and spiky beats 10 than on magic maps you can deliver 40-100k damage.
so 250-500k gold each attack.
Wight can give you 3.000.000 damage on non magic maps but it is in general 1.000.000-2.000.000.
you can read many threds in forum how to deliver huge damage in guild maps as it is not easy always deliver 1.000.000 it require many months collecting and melding creatures.
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Post by SoaponaRope [BK] on Jun 2, 2015 14:59:55 GMT
Sincere question here, how can Spiky Bits possibly compare with Wight over time? Spiky Bits and Sharp Armor activate 3 times max per encounter. So lay out best case scenario: - Will wait to lay appropriate number of Neander down
- Assuming maximum of 10 Spells from all creatures: 5x Pyre 5 and 5x Frostbite 5
- Assuming Max Level of Spiky Bits and Sharp Armor
- Assuming no deaths, no Immunity
- Assuming 6 creatures with Sharp Armor for this scenario
Spiky Bits Pyre does 3 valid targets only (200 damage each), Frostbite does 3 valid targets (100 damage each). Returns 50% + 300 per hit:
- Pyre A - (100 + 300) x 3 = 1200
- Pyre B - (100 + 300) x 3 = 1200
- Pyre C - (100 + 300) x 3 = 1200
- Pyre D - (100 + 300) x 3 = 1200
- Pyre E - (100 + 300) x 3 = 1200
- Frosbite A - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frosbite B - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frosbite C - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frosbite D - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frosbite E - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
Damage Reflected in 1 Round => 11250 Damage x 3 Activations (Rounds) = 33750 total damage.
Sharp Armor
Pyre does 6 valid targets (See Above) (200 damage each), Frostbite does 3 valid targets (100 damage each). Returns 50% + 300 per hit: - Pyre A - (100 + 300) x 6 = 2400
- Pyre B - (100 + 300) x 6 = 2400
- Pyre C - (100 + 300) x 6 = 2400
- Pyre D - (100 + 300) x 6 = 2400
- Pyre E - (100 + 300) x 6 = 2400
- Frostbite A - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frostbite B - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frostbite C - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frostbite D - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frostbite E - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
Damage Reflected in 1 Round => 17250 Damage x 3 Activations (Rounds) = 51750 total damage. This scenario isn't really too hard to mimic, except in finding a map that will actually put out this much magic damage, you'll need a fresh one and it's rare (might not exist, haven't gone looking). Now Berserker comes with some benefits, namely his boars which make it much easier to keep the hero alive, but Wight comes with Cripple. And the argument that physical damage from Neanders will make up the missing damage is a bit far fetched and runs into the same arguments that a Zora deck has - getting stonewalled by Dodges and Frost Armors. The unfortunate truth is that 51750 damage with a Wight is a really bad round. I have beaten that by a lot with my experimental Zora decks that I haven't even posted because I don't feel good about the results and stability yet. So if you have a Berserker and no Wight, you're in good hands... but if we're still talking about maximizing damage I don't see the comparison. What other tricks are helping Berserker reach top damage rankings?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 14:10:45 GMT
Sincere question here, how can Spiky Bits possibly compare with Wight over time? Spiky Bits and Sharp Armor activate 3 times max per encounter. So lay out best case scenario: - Will wait to lay appropriate number of Neander down
- Assuming maximum of 10 Spells from all creatures: 5x Pyre 5 and 5x Frostbite 5
- Assuming Max Level of Spiky Bits and Sharp Armor
- Assuming no deaths, no Immunity
- Assuming 6 creatures with Sharp Armor for this scenario
Spiky Bits Pyre does 3 valid targets only (200 damage each), Frostbite does 3 valid targets (100 damage each). Returns 50% + 300 per hit:
- Pyre A - (100 + 300) x 3 = 1200
- Pyre B - (100 + 300) x 3 = 1200
- Pyre C - (100 + 300) x 3 = 1200
- Pyre D - (100 + 300) x 3 = 1200
- Pyre E - (100 + 300) x 3 = 1200
- Frosbite A - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frosbite B - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frosbite C - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frosbite D - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frosbite E - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
Damage Reflected in 1 Round => 11250 Damage x 3 Activations (Rounds) = 33750 total damage.
Sharp Armor
Pyre does 6 valid targets (See Above) (200 damage each), Frostbite does 3 valid targets (100 damage each). Returns 50% + 300 per hit: - Pyre A - (100 + 300) x 6 = 2400
- Pyre B - (100 + 300) x 6 = 2400
- Pyre C - (100 + 300) x 6 = 2400
- Pyre D - (100 + 300) x 6 = 2400
- Pyre E - (100 + 300) x 6 = 2400
- Frostbite A - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frostbite B - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frostbite C - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frostbite D - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
- Frostbite E - (50 + 300) x 3 = 1050
Damage Reflected in 1 Round => 17250 Damage x 3 Activations (Rounds) = 51750 total damage. This scenario isn't really too hard to mimic, except in finding a map that will actually put out this much magic damage, you'll need a fresh one and it's rare (might not exist, haven't gone looking). Now Berserker comes with some benefits, namely his boars which make it much easier to keep the hero alive, but Wight comes with Cripple. And the argument that physical damage from Neanders will make up the missing damage is a bit far fetched and runs into the same arguments that a Zora deck has - getting stonewalled by Dodges and Frost Armors. The unfortunate truth is that 51750 damage with a Wight is a really bad round. I have beaten that by a lot with my experimental Zora decks that I haven't even posted because I don't feel good about the results and stability yet. So if you have a Berserker and no Wight, you're in good hands... but if we're still talking about maximizing damage I don't see the comparison. What other tricks are helping Berserker reach top damage rankings? wow! very informative and interesting, thank you for replying in such details =D
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Jun 3, 2015 18:56:54 GMT
SoaponaRope [BK] Berserker (or any Neander with Spiky Bits) won't really contend with Wight damage-wise, nothing can. But what was mentioned before, doing 1,000,000+ damage can be quite counter-productive and cause Guilds to beat Maps too quickly and run into the problem of running out of Contribution. Spiky Bits will net you around 50-150k damage, which is much more ideal.
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Post by SoaponaRope [BK] on Jun 3, 2015 19:38:52 GMT
Ya that's just not a problem I've encountered yet haha!
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Jun 3, 2015 21:35:08 GMT
Ya that's just not a problem I've encountered yet haha! Lucky you. It just makes your Guild do at least twice the work.
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Post by albagubrath on Jun 19, 2015 15:41:56 GMT
I have an idea to further increase damage. Why not stack effects? Have wights death curse, say two flame braves, something like ophiucus with gas cloud and maybe phantom leige or something with lockdown. Then fill the rest of the deck with oracles or bless ragers. You could even add a creature with sneak in there to maximise physical damage too?
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Post by SoaponaRope [BK] on Jun 19, 2015 17:58:01 GMT
Hey figured I'd post this I've been sitting on it for a while: Wight Damage CalculatorIt shows how rapidly Wight damage scales and also to your point albagubrath, it will be hard to improve upon this damage. Now there are tons of reasons people cant achieve this damage in total, one of which being there is not enough HP in most Guild maps to even get this high, and as Creatures die the Mantra gets activated when your own creatures hit the enemy Hero. The chart is missing new information regarding rage generation through Bless and Bloodlust Runes which will drastically change these numbers. That being said, I think that using Rage boosting Runes and creatures that cater to this will increase damage drastically more than including damage dealing creatures even as powerful as Flame Brave when using Wight.
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Post by TheLichthatLies on Jul 5, 2015 22:04:55 GMT
What creatures would you suggest for a wight guild map deck. im averaging between 15-40k damage a round and from what ive seen that is kind of low
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Post by sonbalin on Jul 5, 2015 23:14:42 GMT
What creatures would you suggest for a wight guild map deck. im averaging between 15-40k damage a round and from what ive seen that is kind of low If you read through this thread & some threads on the Deck Building subforum, there's a wealth of information. A brief summary: Oracles, preferably melded with Frost Armour or Immunity; Frost Ragers with Bless are a 'cheap' but inferior substitute. Some lockdown creatures thrown in for good measure. Don't hit the enemy hero - No Curse, Godswill, Stabthrough or anything similiar. Don't put down more cards than the enemy. If you're only putting out 15-40k damage, it sounds like you're having trouble surviving to be honest; Bless, Mass Heal, Frost Armour and Immunity are the key to a good Wight Deck - Wight does the damage, your cards are there to keep him alive.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 20:22:42 GMT
still thinking berserker is the much better way to go on the guild maps. And spiky bits is not the reason at all. What do you need contribution for if you have all the maps open? Also is gold a problem for people, ive got way more than i could hope to use
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Post by Sytry on Jul 20, 2015 2:19:24 GMT
Berserker Boars increase atk linearly. Wight damage increases at a steep curve. By the time you deal 100k damage Wight will have dealth 600k.
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Post by sonbalin on Jul 20, 2015 3:51:29 GMT
You need contribution to re-open the maps once you've cleared them. If you're finishing maps slowly it's not a problem, if you clear them quickly it is.
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inherit
Boxing Kangaroo
20
0
Feb 13, 2018 17:46:48 GMT
501
SoaponaRope [BK]
576
Feb 12, 2015 22:48:09 GMT
February 2015
soaponarope
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Post by SoaponaRope [BK] on Jul 20, 2015 14:48:54 GMT
Berserker Boars increase atk linearly. Wight damage increases at a steep curve. By the time you deal 100k damage Wight will have dealth 600k. This is true but Wight has a "killswitch" by activating Mantra. In some ways Wight then has more control than most other Heroes. This worked for me well until I accidentally did 1.4 mil with a deck designed to do 80k. So I'd say that Wight is still a very safe bet if you're willing to manual through the whole thing, but if you want to auto you really need to be careful.
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