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Post by swordfish on Dec 27, 2016 17:29:42 GMT
Hey guys! So it's about time to meld my paragon, and I need some help. Now I know i9 is the one people always tell you to meld and that it is way better than fa. But what about rampart? I feel like the meta is shifting away from disposal, magic, and rqt towards high physical damage and direct damage. Taking this into account, I'm thinking that looking towards physical instead of skill defense is the better option. For one I think fa becomes more feasible and secondly, I think a rampart meld would be epic. What do you guys think? Is rampart too valuable to spend on a paragon?
Just for reference, this is my first paragon meld, and I have both rampart creatures from gm7 on the way. So feel free to give me advice and talk about the dh meta.
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Post by cozy on Dec 27, 2016 20:32:39 GMT
I'd love to hear others take on this as I'm pretty low in the arena. But to me it seems that from a defensive standpoint if someone sees your paragon doesn't have immunity they can use disposal/instakill on you and have the graveyard access while you don't.
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Post by tanisomsford on Dec 28, 2016 5:27:58 GMT
I'd love to hear others take on this as I'm pretty low in the arena. But to me it seems that from a defensive standpoint if someone sees your paragon doesn't have immunity they can use disposal/instakill on you and have the graveyard access while you don't. I'd say that's a valid comment in lower tourney ranks, but in tourney 500 and better, the focus seems to be more on the top tier metas, like RQT's, sac cards, direct damage and the like. I don't think disposal and instakill is a threat beyond rank 1000
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Post by isopig on Dec 28, 2016 5:42:19 GMT
Personally, I'd go for i9/i10 first (I am doing that for my main). I think rqt is still solid for people who don't have 2 aqua per tourney deck.
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Post by tanisomsford on Dec 28, 2016 6:24:45 GMT
RQT is a good point.
But with that, I'd say both skills have equal advantages. With Rampart, for example, your paragon can all of a sudden tank a sac anathema or the like.
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Post by Yuna on Dec 28, 2016 7:07:05 GMT
The meta is not shifting away from RQTs. Every single player in the Top 50 still have at least one RQT in each of decks.
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Post by tanisomsford on Dec 28, 2016 21:00:51 GMT
The meta is not shifting away from RQTs. Every single player in the Top 50 still have at least one RQT in each of decks. That's a good point. But the meta WILL shift away from RQT, to Hanzo(way too OP if you ask me) over the next few months, at least in the top end of tourney. But having said that, Yuna is totally right dude. There will be one RQT to deal with for the foreseeable future. But with that in mind, I don't think one card with retreat is a solid enough argument to say i9 > Rampart simply because one opponent card can push her off the board. Especially because Rampart offers more raw defence than i9 from a numbers perspective. A lot more, in fact, now that many end game decks have mostly abandoned magic, death, poison and lockdown because of immunity. And now, since there's a Rampart Rune that will trickle down over time, this really makes both skills equal in usefulness for different reasons. Just because no one has done it yet, doesn't mean it's a wrong strategy... Look at all those Top players that melded their Octavius cards with revive just because everyone was doing it...LMFAO!! Sometimes there's a lot of sheep in this game it seems.
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Post by isopig on Dec 29, 2016 2:02:53 GMT
Better raw defense is not really an advantage in itself . . . Very often I'm happy if my paragon gets killed after just one round. Rage increase, card position, damage output, all those things come into play. It all comes down to where OP is and expects to be in the game. We're talking about the first paragon meld.
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Post by tanisomsford on Dec 29, 2016 2:08:14 GMT
Better raw defense is not really an advantage in itself . . . Very often I'm happy if my paragon gets killed after just one round. Rage increase, card position, damage output, all those things come into play. It all comes down to where OP is and expects to be in the game. We're talking about the first paragon meld. Did you just say reducing damage is not an advantage? Can you go into that a little more?
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Post by swordfish on Dec 29, 2016 2:36:35 GMT
Better raw defense is not really an advantage in itself . . . Very often I'm happy if my paragon gets killed after just one round. Rage increase, card position, damage output, all those things come into play. It all comes down to where OP is and expects to be in the game. We're talking about the first paragon meld. Did you just say reducing damage is not an advantage? Can you go into that a little more? I see what he is saying because a hero skill proc'ing is often worth more than a creature. But even though I see what he is saying, I still disagree. 1) You just don't want a paragon to die. Period. 2) Decreasing defense loses you board control. Losing board control means: a) you can keep your creatures around meaning they can't synergize, b) your rqt's are useless, and c) their rqt will grape you mercilessly. The only way to maintain board control would be to focus everything on insane damage and have plenty of revive and rebirth. The actual feasibility of this working, however, is low. And if this is the goal, you're better off melding paragon with pyre or picking off or something. 3) If we want to talk about card positioning and damage, I can definitely relate to deck clogging as i play with two rec hb and 2 rqts. However, paragon is different from these creatures. You usually have multiple hb and rqt is just useless up front. But if your board gets clogged up with paragon, the enemy's only benefit is that they can put more creatures on the field; they can't bring any back from the grave so their gained benefit is only minor. In conclusion, based on your reasoning Paragon should have an offensive meld, not a defensive. Personally I'm looking for a defensive meld for Paragon. But if you want to argue for offensive melds, go ahead. I love to hear about out of the box melds. Either way, maybe more of an explanation could help.
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Post by isopig on Dec 29, 2016 2:40:07 GMT
I meant just because Rampart reduces damages does not mean it always brings an advantage. I was talking only from my experience. I often want my unmelded paragon to be killed, get my hero's rage up, and have a revive carrier bring her back to the far right, especially if the opponent's rqt is itching towards my paragon. Somehow it happens a lot to me.
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Post by swordfish on Dec 29, 2016 2:47:33 GMT
I meant just because Rampart reduces damages does not mean it always brings an advantage. I was talking only from my experience. I often want my unmelded paragon to be killed, get my hero's rage up, and have a revive carrier bring her back to the far right, especially if the opponent's rqt is itching towards my paragon. Somehow it happens a lot to me. Ok, that'd make a good bit of sense, especially if you got two revives. It would work since it is also a passive skill and it doesn't need to be Paragon's turn to proc the ability. On the flip side though, it is a risky move and it also means you may have another creature that doesn't get revived. So would you support a more offensive or disabler kind of meld?
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Post by tanisomsford on Dec 29, 2016 3:54:21 GMT
I meant just because Rampart reduces damages does not mean it always brings an advantage. I was talking only from my experience. I often want my unmelded paragon to be killed, get my hero's rage up, and have a revive carrier bring her back to the far right, especially if the opponent's rqt is itching towards my paragon. Somehow it happens a lot to me. Based on that logic, stoneskin is the best meld, she does fast as you want, but doesn't get retreated or disposed. Either way, I cannot say I agree with your logic, as the paragon off the board means the opponent gets to revive. Torment is completely passive, so you don't care about lockdown, the simplest need for paragon is to keep her on the board for as long as possible. If you need to soak damage to build rage, there's better ways to do it then letting paragon die.
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Post by isopig on Dec 29, 2016 5:05:08 GMT
Based on that logic, stoneskin is the best meld, she does fast as you want, but doesn't get retreated or disposed. Either way, I cannot say I agree with your logic, as the paragon off the board means the opponent gets to revive. Torment is completely passive, so you don't care about lockdown, the simplest need for paragon is to keep her on the board for as long as possible. If you need to soak damage to build rage, there's better ways to do it then letting paragon die. My point was about Rampart not being always useful, never about getting my paragon killed as fast as possible being a top priority. Almost everything is a trade-off when it comes to meld, and i9/i10 is the best trade-off I see. And yes, where I am in the game (hovering around 600-800 in the tourney and expecting to stay there for quite some time), I don't care too much if it's stoneskin or i9/i10, but I prefer i9/i10 because I still want to use her basic attack and Delay 3 and defend against the occasional magic damage.
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