inherit
3078
0
Apr 14, 2020 21:43:03 GMT
0
spiritdragon
2
June 2016
spiritdragon
|
Post by spiritdragon on Feb 11, 2017 6:39:27 GMT
Chiroptera's Swordplay ability reads: "If enemy Creature survives a basic attack, reduce its HP and Max HP equal to DMG dealt and add it to this Creature. If your current HP exceeds 3000, reduce HP and Max HP by the difference between current and initial HP to deal twice the amount as Direct DMG among all enemy creatures."
Is this to say that if Chiroptera's initial HP is higher, this skill would do less direct damage upon activation? Also, do runes that increase Chiroptera's HP also affect the damage from this skill?
|
|
inherit
2562
0
Sept 2, 2023 16:06:59 GMT
659
Yuna
2,466
March 2016
yuna
|
Post by Yuna on Feb 11, 2017 8:27:46 GMT
Yes. Yes.
Initial HP: No Sacrifice or Runes
|
|
inherit
Psalm 18:33
3961
0
Jun 21, 2018 14:57:16 GMT
284
ℒ✰Deer
891
February 2017
wanderdeer
WanderDeer
|
Post by ℒ✰Deer on May 1, 2017 15:29:53 GMT
Hmmm, I have just got him. So I can't equip him with runes otherwise his ability will be ruined. How about melding options like holy shield?
|
|
inherit
2911
0
15
soussie
63
May 17, 2016 10:23:20 GMT
May 2016
soussie
|
Post by soussie on May 1, 2017 15:34:16 GMT
With runes and equipment my chiro gets over 3k health so when he goes on the board he instantly uses his aoe and with a good attack he can even trigger the aoe twice on the first turn.
|
|
inherit
Psalm 18:33
3961
0
Jun 21, 2018 14:57:16 GMT
284
ℒ✰Deer
891
February 2017
wanderdeer
WanderDeer
|
Post by ℒ✰Deer on May 1, 2017 16:14:27 GMT
Interesting, one question. It says: If your current HP exceeds 3000, reduce HP and Max HP by the difference between current and initial HP to deal twice the amount as Direct DMG among all enemy creatures. So in your case when you play it, his ability activated straight away and his Hp goes back to? what state?
|
|
inherit
Four Horsemen
1733
0
13
RH*EvildreamS
87
Oct 14, 2015 18:29:39 GMT
October 2015
evildreams
|
Post by RH*EvildreamS on May 1, 2017 16:28:50 GMT
It active straight away and hp goes back to 1800hp initial hp (even with runes) then gain 200hp when any crit is dead. Ss may works great on him but lacks immun in this case
|
|
inherit
2911
0
15
soussie
63
May 17, 2016 10:23:20 GMT
May 2016
soussie
|
Post by soussie on May 1, 2017 16:47:51 GMT
why does he lack immunity? you can get 3k easily when evolved and proper runes, After that you can meld immunity on him.
|
|
inherit
Psalm 18:33
3961
0
Jun 21, 2018 14:57:16 GMT
284
ℒ✰Deer
891
February 2017
wanderdeer
WanderDeer
|
Post by ℒ✰Deer on May 1, 2017 17:48:05 GMT
I like this creature and in my level he is still useful. Immunity can be melded but now I see why he is not in any top tourney deck. First he lacks bullseye. If he can't make a successful basic attack his HP won't rise or just very slowly. So he needs some other cards to support him. I am still playing with a right set up but one question: How fast can he proc his skill? For me he needs at least 2-3 turn or even more to regain his HP to 3k. So.... why not just a Taurus then? Why am I bothered to create a deck around him? Well....it's nice to step out of the current meta and try to make something new even if it will fail.
|
|
inherit
3958
0
Mar 19, 2018 11:48:48 GMT
12
aarcher
88
February 2017
aarcher
|
Post by aarcher on May 1, 2017 18:25:38 GMT
I like this creature and in my level he is very useful. Immunity can be melded but now I see why he is not in any top tourney deck. First he lacks bullseye. If he can't make a successful basic attack his HP won't rise or just very slowly. So he needs some other cards to support him. I am still playing with a right set up but one question: How fast can he proc his skill? For me he needs at least 2-3 turn or even more to regain his HP to 3k. So.... why not just a Taurus then? Why am I bothered to create a deck around him? Well....it's nice to step out of the current meta and try to make something new even if it will fail. Cause not everyone has a Taurus , let alone Chirop. Think I've seen him trigger his ability after his 1st attack a few times. Don't face him too often though.
|
|
inherit
2562
0
Sept 2, 2023 16:06:59 GMT
659
Yuna
2,466
March 2016
yuna
|
Post by Yuna on May 1, 2017 18:56:03 GMT
I like this creature and in my level he is very useful. Immunity can be melded but now I see why he is not in any top tourney deck. First he lacks bullseye. If he can't make a successful basic attack his HP won't rise or just very slowly. So he needs some other cards to support him. I am still playing with a right set up but one question: How fast can he proc his skill? For me he needs at least 2-3 turn or even more to regain his HP to 3k. So.... why not just a Taurus then? Why am I bothered to create a deck around him? Well....it's nice to step out of the current meta and try to make something new even if it will fail. Cause not everyone has a Taurus , let alone Chirop. Think I've seen him trigger his ability after his attack a few times. Don't face him too often though. The thing is that Chiroptera is much rarer than Taurus. So it's actually "easier" to meld a Taurus than a Chiroptera.
|
|
inherit
3958
0
Mar 19, 2018 11:48:48 GMT
12
aarcher
88
February 2017
aarcher
|
Post by aarcher on May 1, 2017 19:02:22 GMT
Cause not everyone has a Taurus , let alone Chirop. Think I've seen him trigger his ability after his attack a few times. Don't face him too often though. The thing is that Chiroptera is much rarer than Taurus. So it's actually "easier" to meld a Taurus than a Chiroptera. How come Chirop is rarer? Obtainable through boosters, lucky spin and probably other ways I assume.
|
|
inherit
2562
0
Sept 2, 2023 16:06:59 GMT
659
Yuna
2,466
March 2016
yuna
|
Post by Yuna on May 1, 2017 22:06:52 GMT
The thing is that Chiroptera is much rarer than Taurus. So it's actually "easier" to meld a Taurus than a Chiroptera. How come Chirop is rarer? Obtainable through boosters, lucky spin and probably other ways I assume. Because Taurus is available through more means that that? Chiroptera is not available through Lucky Spin unless he's the featured card unless I just never saw him. Also, the chances of actually getting a 5-star creature from Lucky Spin are extremely low. Taurus is also available through boosters and she's available through boosters much more often than Chiroptera is. Taurus is also frequently a prize in events, whereas Chiroptera rarely is. Taurus is also available through almost all of the "buy gems, open an X" events, whereas Chiroptera's only available in some of those. I'm pretty sure Taurus shards also drop more often from events that drop 5-star shards because I've got so many more Taurus shards than I've got Chiroptera shards. Any method through which Chiroptera is available, Taurus is also available and then some, besides Lucky Spin, but it doesn't count because blegh, Lucky Spin.
|
|
#da2020
2361
0
339
ZanderX10
1,085
Jan 21, 2016 18:26:57 GMT
January 2016
zanderx10
|
Post by ZanderX10 on May 2, 2017 0:52:27 GMT
Sac chiroptera better than sac taurus for first turn destruction
|
|
inherit
2562
0
Sept 2, 2023 16:06:59 GMT
659
Yuna
2,466
March 2016
yuna
|
Post by Yuna on May 2, 2017 1:45:18 GMT
Sac chiroptera better than sac taurus for first turn destruction (Just adding facts, not trying to start a fight) Key:
Vanilla: No runes vit10!: With a level 10 Vitality V rune vit+prot10! With a level 10 Vitality V and level 10 Protean V rune bold: More damage than the other creature with the same Sacrifice level and rune(s) Sacrifice Level | vanilla!Taurus | vanilla!Chiroptera | vit10!Taurus | vit10!Chiroptera | vit+prot10!Taurus | vit+prot10!Chiroptera | 6 | 6273 (+3071) | 3202 | 8173 (+1171) | 7002 | 9613 (+1171) | 8442 | 8 | 7264 (+2907) | 4357 | 9464 (+795) | 8669
| 11224 (+795)
| 10429
| 10 | 8255 (+2918) | 5337 | 10755 (+418) | 10337 | 12755 (+418) | 12337 | 12 | 9245 (+2918) | 6404 | 12045 (+41) | 12004 | 14285 (+41)
| 14244
| 13 | 9740 (+2855) | 6885 | 12690 | 12838 (+148) | 15050 | 15198 (+148) | 15 | 10731 (+2726) | 8005 | 13981 | 14505 (+524)
| 16581
| 17105 (+524)
|
So, no matter what level of Sacrifice, vanilla, Taurus will inflict far more damage than Chiroptera. When equipped with level 10 Vitality V runes, Taurus will beat Chiroptera until Sacrifice 13, at which point Chiroptera will edge out Taurus, gaining a bigger edge with each subsequent level of Sacrifice. But even at Sacrifice 15, Chiroptera's edge on Taurus is minimal. If one adds a Protean V rune, one gets a wash because both add the same amount of Direct Damage on the first round. The figures are only present in the table above for illustrative purposes Chiroptera is limited by its low-ish base HP wheras Taurus has a ridiculous base HP (and base ATK to boot!). So if one has the choice between the two, Taurus if the way to go every single time unless you've got Sacrifice 13 or above ready to go and you hankering for that extra Direct Damage on round 1 (148 for Sacrifice 13, 524 for Sacrifice 15).
|
|
#da2020
2361
0
339
ZanderX10
1,085
Jan 21, 2016 18:26:57 GMT
January 2016
zanderx10
|
Post by ZanderX10 on May 2, 2017 2:07:25 GMT
Sac chiroptera better than sac taurus for first turn destruction (Just adding facts, not trying to start a fight) Key:
Vanilla: No runes vit10!: With a level 10 Vitality V rune vit+prot10! With a level 10 Vitality V and level 10 Protean V rune Sacrifice Level | vanilla!Taurus | vanilla!Chiroptera | vit10!Taurus | vit10!Chiroptera | vit+prot10!Taurus | vit+prot10!Chiroptera | 6 | 6273 | 3202 | 8173 | 7002 | 9693 | 8442 | 8 | 7264 | 4357 | 9464 | 8669
| 11224
| 10349 | 10 | 8255 | 5337 | 10755 | 10337 | 12755 | 12337 | 12 | 9245 | 6404 | 12045 | 12004 | 14285
| 14244
| 13 | 9740 | 6885 | 12690 | 12838 | 15050 | 15198 | 15 | 10731 | 8005 | 13981 | 14505
| 16581
| 17105
|
So, no matter what level of Sacrifice, vanilla, Taurus will inflict far more damage than Chiroptera. When equipped with level 10 Vitality V runes, Taurus will beat Chiroptera until Sacrifice 13, at which point Chiroptera will edge out Taurus, gaining a bigger edge with each subsequent level of Sacrifice. But even at Sacrifice 15, Chiroptera's edge on Taurus is minimal. If one adds a Protean V rune, one gets a wash because both add the same amount of Direct Damage on the first round. The figures are only present in the table above for illustrative purposes Chiroptera is limited by its low-ish base HP wheras Taurus has a ridiculous base HP (and base ATK to boot!). So if one has the choice between the two, Taurus if the way to go every single time unless you've got Sacrifice 13 or above ready to go and you hankering for that extra Direct Damage on round 1 (148 for Sacrifice 13, 524 for Sacrifice 15). I may have remembered wrong. I could have swore I saw a sac chiroptera get 12k hp once then deal 20k dmg.
|
|
inherit
2562
0
Sept 2, 2023 16:06:59 GMT
659
Yuna
2,466
March 2016
yuna
|
Post by Yuna on May 2, 2017 2:23:07 GMT
(Just adding facts, not trying to start a fight) Key:
Vanilla: No runes vit10!: With a level 10 Vitality V rune vit+prot10! With a level 10 Vitality V and level 10 Protean V rune Sacrifice Level | vanilla!Taurus | vanilla!Chiroptera | vit10!Taurus | vit10!Chiroptera | vit+prot10!Taurus | vit+prot10!Chiroptera | 6 | 6273 | 3202 | 8173 | 7002 | 9693 | 8442 | 8 | 7264 | 4357 | 9464 | 8669
| 11224
| 10349 | 10 | 8255 | 5337 | 10755 | 10337 | 12755 | 12337 | 12 | 9245 | 6404 | 12045 | 12004 | 14285
| 14244
| 13 | 9740 | 6885 | 12690 | 12838 | 15050 | 15198 | 15 | 10731 | 8005 | 13981 | 14505
| 16581
| 17105
|
So, no matter what level of Sacrifice, vanilla, Taurus will inflict far more damage than Chiroptera. When equipped with level 10 Vitality V runes, Taurus will beat Chiroptera until Sacrifice 13, at which point Chiroptera will edge out Taurus, gaining a bigger edge with each subsequent level of Sacrifice. But even at Sacrifice 15, Chiroptera's edge on Taurus is minimal. If one adds a Protean V rune, one gets a wash because both add the same amount of Direct Damage on the first round. The figures are only present in the table above for illustrative purposes Chiroptera is limited by its low-ish base HP wheras Taurus has a ridiculous base HP (and base ATK to boot!). So if one has the choice between the two, Taurus if the way to go every single time unless you've got Sacrifice 13 or above ready to go and you hankering for that extra Direct Damage on round 1 (148 for Sacrifice 13, 524 for Sacrifice 15). I may have remembered wrong. I could have swore I saw a sac chiroptera get 12k hp once then deal 20k dmg. Chiroptera's Base HP is 1779. +1000 for Vitality V, +400 for Protean V = 3179 + Sac 15 (which no player yet has as far as I know) = 10331 So you'll need some All Vigor V and/or Mortii Vigor V or some bonus from equipment on top of that to get Chiroptera's HP to 12k after Sacrifice 15.
|
|
#da2020
2361
0
339
ZanderX10
1,085
Jan 21, 2016 18:26:57 GMT
January 2016
zanderx10
|
Post by ZanderX10 on May 2, 2017 2:44:44 GMT
I may have remembered wrong. I could have swore I saw a sac chiroptera get 12k hp once then deal 20k dmg. Chiroptera's Base HP is 1779. +1000 for Vitality V, +400 for Protean V = 3179 + Sac 15 (which no player yet has as far as I know) = 10331 So you'll need some All Vigor V and/or Mortii Vigor V or some bonus from equipment on top of that to get Chiroptera's HP to 12k after Sacrifice 15. equipment hp
|
|
inherit
2562
0
Sept 2, 2023 16:06:59 GMT
659
Yuna
2,466
March 2016
yuna
|
Post by Yuna on May 2, 2017 3:35:21 GMT
Chiroptera's Base HP is 1779. +1000 for Vitality V, +400 for Protean V = 3179 + Sac 15 (which no player yet has as far as I know) = 10331 So you'll need some All Vigor V and/or Mortii Vigor V or some bonus from equipment on top of that to get Chiroptera's HP to 12k after Sacrifice 15. equipment hp Yes, but you'd still need to invest a whole lot to get there. First, you'll need high level Vitality V, Protean V, All Vigor and Mortii Vigor V runes, then some equipment bonus HP and then an extremely high level Sacrifice skill. Someone who'd invested that much into the game likely had a better creature to meld Sacrifice 12 or 13 or whatever onto than Chiroptera.
|
|
inherit
Psalm 18:33
3961
0
Jun 21, 2018 14:57:16 GMT
284
ℒ✰Deer
891
February 2017
wanderdeer
WanderDeer
|
Post by ℒ✰Deer on May 2, 2017 8:30:48 GMT
WOW...how could you calculate this?? Doesn't matter it wasn't a real question.
My real question is. Have you tried to play with Chiroptera to make him proc his skill every turn? Is it something that is achievable? If he can then it would be better than Taurus.
|
|
inherit
3958
0
Mar 19, 2018 11:48:48 GMT
12
aarcher
88
February 2017
aarcher
|
Post by aarcher on May 2, 2017 11:17:01 GMT
How come Chirop is rarer? Obtainable through boosters, lucky spin and probably other ways I assume. Because Taurus is available through more means that that? Chiroptera is not available through Lucky Spin unless he's the featured card unless I just never saw him. Also, the chances of actually getting a 5-star creature from Lucky Spin are extremely low. Taurus is also available through boosters and she's available through boosters much more often than Chiroptera is. Taurus is also frequently a prize in events, whereas Chiroptera rarely is. Taurus is also available through almost all of the "buy gems, open an X" events, whereas Chiroptera's only available in some of those. I'm pretty sure Taurus shards also drop more often from events that drop 5-star shards because I've got so many more Taurus shards than I've got Chiroptera shards. Any method through which Chiroptera is available, Taurus is also available and then some, besides Lucky Spin, but it doesn't count because blegh, Lucky Spin. Mm I see, guess you're right. Chirop is a rare reward in Lucky Spin though. Appears every now and then, not just as a featured card. Nonetheless the odds are really, really low of getting 1.
|
|
inherit
2562
0
Sept 2, 2023 16:06:59 GMT
659
Yuna
2,466
March 2016
yuna
|
Post by Yuna on May 2, 2017 11:39:37 GMT
WOW...how could you calculate this?? Doesn't matter it wasn't a real question. My real question is. Have you tried to play with Chiroptera to make him proc his skill every turn? Is it something that is achievable? If he can then it would be better than Taurus. It is conceivably possible to make his skill procc every turn, but it would still be weaker than a Sacrifice Taurus because after that 1st round, you'll need to slowly build his HP up from scratch again. What you'd need to do is have 1 Santa Baus, Santa Claudia or Merry Christie in your deck, have placed at least 1 enemy creature in the graveyard, have multiple Tomb Raiders and use Taskmistress as your hero. This is wildly inconvenient, in some ways counter-intuitive and extremely less effective than just putting Sacrifice on Taurus.
|
|
#da2020
2361
0
339
ZanderX10
1,085
Jan 21, 2016 18:26:57 GMT
January 2016
zanderx10
|
Post by ZanderX10 on May 2, 2017 13:31:37 GMT
WOW...how could you calculate this?? Doesn't matter it wasn't a real question. My real question is. Have you tried to play with Chiroptera to make him proc his skill every turn? Is it something that is achievable? If he can then it would be better than Taurus. It is conceivably possible to make his skill procc every turn, but it would still be weaker than a Sacrifice Taurus because after that 1st round, you'll need to slowly build his HP up from scratch again. What you'd need to do is have 1 Santa Baus, Santa Claudia or Merry Christie in your deck, have placed at least 1 enemy creature in the graveyard, have multiple Tomb Raiders and use Taskmistress as your hero. This is wildly inconvenient, in some ways counter-intuitive and extremely less effective than just putting Sacrifice on Taurus. wouldn't lifesap allow him to proc everytime he attacks? He should be able to lifesap to max hp and proc his skill again.
|
|
inherit
2562
0
Sept 2, 2023 16:06:59 GMT
659
Yuna
2,466
March 2016
yuna
|
Post by Yuna on May 2, 2017 14:46:07 GMT
It is conceivably possible to make his skill procc every turn, but it would still be weaker than a Sacrifice Taurus because after that 1st round, you'll need to slowly build his HP up from scratch again. What you'd need to do is have 1 Santa Baus, Santa Claudia or Merry Christie in your deck, have placed at least 1 enemy creature in the graveyard, have multiple Tomb Raiders and use Taskmistress as your hero. This is wildly inconvenient, in some ways counter-intuitive and extremely less effective than just putting Sacrifice on Taurus. wouldn't lifesap allow him to proc everytime he attacks? He should be able to lifesap to max hp and proc his skill again. No, because Life Sap does not add to max HP, it only restores lost HP and Swordplay decreases Chiroptera's Max HP to 1779 no matter how high it was when Swordplay activated.
|
|
inherit
Psalm 18:33
3961
0
Jun 21, 2018 14:57:16 GMT
284
ℒ✰Deer
891
February 2017
wanderdeer
WanderDeer
|
Post by ℒ✰Deer on May 2, 2017 14:57:48 GMT
I was thinking maybe with Holy Shield and bit of luck
|
|
#da2020
2361
0
339
ZanderX10
1,085
Jan 21, 2016 18:26:57 GMT
January 2016
zanderx10
|
Post by ZanderX10 on May 2, 2017 15:06:41 GMT
wouldn't lifesap allow him to proc everytime he attacks? He should be able to lifesap to max hp and proc his skill again. No, because Life Sap does not add to max HP, it only restores lost HP and Swordplay decreases Chiroptera's Max HP to 1779 no matter how high it was when Swordplay activated. well yeah but the first part of his skill adds max hp equal to attack. This meaning Tha as long as he attacks, he would add max hp and hp as well as lifesap. So even if he was at 50% hp (909), he could attack for (let's say) 1500dmg, gain 1500 max hp (3318 max and 2409 hp), then lifesap up to 3318 and activate his skill.
|
|
inherit
84
0
Aug 21, 2019 23:29:12 GMT
708
asgarth1980
2,446
March 2015
asgarth1980
|
Post by asgarth1980 on May 2, 2017 15:19:42 GMT
I have a question about sac chiropt... first it triggers the seordplay then hp reduced back to basic... so does that mean Max Hp is post sac max hp or return to original max hp?.
|
|
#da2020
2361
0
339
ZanderX10
1,085
Jan 21, 2016 18:26:57 GMT
January 2016
zanderx10
|
Post by ZanderX10 on May 2, 2017 15:28:40 GMT
I have a question about sac chiropt... first it triggers the seordplay then hp reduced back to basic... so does that mean Max Hp is post sac max hp or return to original max hp?. it returns to base max hp
|
|
inherit
84
0
Aug 21, 2019 23:29:12 GMT
708
asgarth1980
2,446
March 2015
asgarth1980
|
Post by asgarth1980 on May 2, 2017 15:44:51 GMT
I have a question about sac chiropt... first it triggers the seordplay then hp reduced back to basic... so does that mean Max Hp is post sac max hp or return to original max hp?. it returns to base max hp so when if it is in presence of judgement hero does the hp heal back to post sac hp?
|
|
inherit
2562
0
Sept 2, 2023 16:06:59 GMT
659
Yuna
2,466
March 2016
yuna
|
Post by Yuna on May 2, 2017 16:27:28 GMT
No, because Life Sap does not add to max HP, it only restores lost HP and Swordplay decreases Chiroptera's Max HP to 1779 no matter how high it was when Swordplay activated. well yeah but the first part of his skill adds max hp equal to attack. This meaning Tha as long as he attacks, he would add max hp and hp as well as lifesap. So even if he was at 50% hp (909), he could attack for (let's say) 1500dmg, gain 1500 max hp (3318 max and 2409 hp), then lifesap up to 3318 and activate his skill. What first part? Swordplay reduces Max HP down to base HP without runes (1779 at level 5). Life Sap does not increase Max HP. There is literally no way to use Life Sap to help increase Chiroptera's Max HP to 3000 or beyond. Are you talking about Shatter Soul? Life Sap helps heal Chiroptera, but does not increase Max HP, you still need to activate Shatter Soul to increase his Max HP and it's a slow climb.
|
|
inherit
2562
0
Sept 2, 2023 16:06:59 GMT
659
Yuna
2,466
March 2016
yuna
|
Post by Yuna on May 2, 2017 16:28:11 GMT
it returns to base max hp so when if it is in presence of judgement hero does the hp heal back to post sac hp? No, because his Max HP will have been reset down to 1779.
|
|