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Post by vatuma on May 21, 2015 12:09:21 GMT
Well, I have one 4-star hero - Wight and right now I’m facing a difficult choice what Hero to buy and enhance. This is the long process, so I’d like to discuss all the 4-star heroes to understand their pros and cons better. I realize that: - here is no “best” hero but some heroes are better in specific situation. Let’s describe the situations.
- the choice depends on the cards I have. But this is not exactly correct because collecting hero shards to get and improve the hero is the long process, so I will probably will get many different cards. So I think it’s the viable strategy to choose hero and collect creatures to use with him.
Let’s compare the heroes in the following battle types: - Guild Maps
- Arena (different heroes/decks for attack and defense)
- Tournaments (different heroes/decks for attack and defense)
- Gauntlet. Gauntlet require a very specific strategies with Captain Crook, 3-star Neander hero for the first tries. So when we discuss Gauntlet we should talk about the “final” hit.
- Raids. No, really. I put it here just to fulfill the list Raids do not need a 4-star hero, so I think no need to discuss it here.
So let me begin the discussion and put heroes’ description and some thoughts. MortiiMortii have two good (here and below - in my opinion) unique talents – Undying and CrippleUndying is the excellent skill that can turn the tide of any battle except Guild maps. Cripple is good but there are too many immune and magic creatures that make the talent not so good. It can be life-saving on Guild maps. WightHaving Wight level 5 I can tell that it’s great on Guild maps but its skill is quite weak in other battles as creatures do not usually live long enough to feel the power of the skill. Well, here are some exceptions of cause – the skill is quite effective versus Venom Tyrant, Phantom Liege and other tough creatures but it’s about the luck to have full rage when they appear. However Mortii talents Undying and Cripple help a lot in all other battles - Arena, Tournament and Gauntlet. DeathmortI didn’t meet high-level Deathmort with good deck enough, so I can tell nothing about the skill. Neander Two good unique talents: Spiky Bits is really great versus magic decks. 90% decks have at least one creature with heavy magic damage, so Spiky Bits can kill a half of most decks just in one turn. It is also very useful in Gauntlet. But it’s the attacking talent only – it’s absolutely useless in defense in Tournaments and Arena. Also it looks not very useful on Guild Maps. Phalanx (Block for 3 creatures so weaker than Full Alert) looks not very strong talent but map 8-11 demonstrates how annoying can it be. And Full Alert is even better. Paw MasterIt seems that the skill is quite useful at level 10 (1500 dmg most probably kill any creature with least HP) but I have some doubts on it. It seems to me that the skill will kill weak (say 3-star) creatures more often than the creatures that really need to be killed fast. So the skill will never aim at Venom or Ursa. BerserkerThe Boar itself is not very strong (say in contrast to Dragon) but the skill summons up to 3 Boars and greatly synergies with Phalanx talent. This synergy is demonstrated on map 8-11. In spite of this I have never met strong Berserker decks. Potentially Berserker should be strong both in defense and attack in Arena and Tournament battles. HumanTwo good unique talents: Zero Kelvin activates when 2 Humans are in graveyard. It’s heavy condition but… Well, I think that these talents work well together. I mean that Bone Wall protects from magic so if two creatures are in the graveyard than the enemy has physical dmg deck, so Zero Kelvin protects from it. And maybe it’s the right moment for turning point when 2 creatures are killed? Edit: argamoroth has mentioned that these talents are 5-star (wiki still differs), so the actual Human 4-star talents are: Royal GuardIf the skill activates in different rounds then Zero Kelvin/Bone Wall that will give an additional round. So it can turn the tide of a battle. Dragon RiderDragon is a strong creature. It looks that Summon Dragon is the best summoning skill. Is it right? Please tell about it. FaenGood unique talents... well it looks that it's better to combine unique and general talents like this: Devil HunterHow does it work? Does it work on one creature only? Is it active until end of the battle? Does it mean that if on a Guild Map stays 2-3 creatures Devil Hunter can deactivate them? Does Mantra clear it?In other battle Entangle looks not very useful because it will deactivate (but not kill) a couple of physical dmg creatures. Compared to it Cripple deactivates more creatures and Dragon also kills them. Edit: Entangle applies to all creatures in play and stays active until end of battle. So if used properly (wait Spiky bits to be over, put magic cards in right moment and so on) it can be very powerful. PredatorGrizzly is a tough creature but is it better than Dragon? Edit: I absolutely sure it isn't. ----- ConclusionIt looks like the following heroes are better than other: Wight – for Guild Maps, attack and defense (Arena, Tournaments) and partially Gauntlet (because of Undying) Dragon Rider – for attack and defense (Arena, Tournaments) Berserker – for attack and defense (Arena, Tournaments) Devil Hunter - for attack only (Arena, Tournaments) Edit: During the discussion the opinions were divided what heroes are better. So I add poll. So let the discussion begin!Comment and correct me if somewhere I’m wrong. Edit: please give an explanation why you think one hero is better than other.
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Post by ÐARҞNESS on May 21, 2015 12:44:25 GMT
Full alert is way better than Phalanx if you ask me. 400 damage reduction on all creatures, 3x activations once you have more than 2 neanders in play.
vs.
Phalanx's 400 damage reduction for just three random creatures.
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Post by derpy✪NFS on May 21, 2015 13:05:38 GMT
In my opinion:
Wight is the most versatile hero. Do not underestimate a strong death curse. Admittedly, you don't need it to 10- but getting it to 5 is simply invaluable, it's underestimated sometimes for normal fights. Against buffing decks (particularly human) Wight just shreds it apart- all those frost armors/immunities can do nothing. It doesn't trigger spiky bits, it goes straight through Snow Harlot, basically it is COMPLETELY impossible to negate, by any means. Sentry Angel with immunity 90 laughs at any attempt to kill it- except death curse.
The reason it's so good is because of that, coupled with undying+cripple, makes it the perfect autopilot hero. The card draw is relatively meaningless, and you don't have to worry about placing your cards- as opposed to human decks, which rely on careful placement of frost armor/healers. Wight is the best overall 4*, and it works even with relatively weak decks. If you have a strong Wight (lv 8+ talents and 5+ curse) you can use a moderate deck and still be tough as nails to beat. It's very, very tough to put together a reliable deck that can beat Wight- unless you just brute force it with a stronger Wight deck. I can't count how many human decks with anti-Mortii measures I've slaughtered with my Wight deck.
Berserker takes a close second place, in my opinion. Once you level it up to 5, Berserker is monstrous- if you have good cards to back it up. Like Wight, it does work relatively well on auto- but it's more situational. Against any deck with magic, it wrecks. Against decks designed to deal with Berserker, you can definitely struggle. Like most summoners, you start to see the benefits at higher levels- so Berserker is one for the long haul.
Dragon Rider is a close third- a well designed human deck with a high level DR is terrifying, but it only becomes obscene when you reach lv 10. Before lv 10, Dragon Rider is decent- but at 10 he probably becomes the strongest hero. The 50% immunity is really nasty, especially as his flaming STILL triggers. A well levelled DR is about the best counter to Wight you'll find, they have a lot of curses which your dragon will swallow up and tear them up with.
Faen got kind of screwed, IMO. They made up for it with the broken 5* Oceanus, but that is a long way away for most. Devil Hunter is *probably* the better of the two, although a lv 10 Predator is no joke, but Devil Hunter pales in comparison to the other top 4* hero, IMO. Entangle is ok, but again- Wight laughs at it. It's good against Berserker, but a huge part of Faen power is based on magic- which doesn't stack up well with Neander. And it's pretty good against Human, but there's a very good chance you get toasted by a Human deck before Entangle even starts firing.
Overall, work your Wight to lv 5/6, then (IMO) it's not worth levelling much further. I have enough shards for lv 6, but I'm probably going to just make a 2nd Wight specialised for non-guild battles, so I can take undying off my guild Wight. Then I would work non-stop on Berserker and Dragon Rider, and push everything you have into getting them to lv 10. It's a long process, but once you get to 5 you'll start to see real benefits.
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Post by stuuu✪NFS on May 21, 2015 13:19:12 GMT
I have all 4* except Deathmort and Royal Guy. My order:
Wight Berserker Paw Master Dragon Rider Devil Hunter Predator
Spikey, Undying, Cripple are all sick. Ice Shell, Agile, and Full Alert are good. Basically after Wight and Berserker they all suck.
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Post by thundergod on May 21, 2015 13:46:30 GMT
Excluding a level 10 Dragon Rider, I would say in order: Wight = Berserker Dragon Rider Devil Hunter Paw Master Royal Guard/Predator(Not sure) Deathmort
Wight definitely is the most versatile, though some maps nearly require spiky bits to make them much more beatable. In pvp, however, I think they are both equal when you get higher up. The Neander stoneskin cards are very strong and do extremely well against your typical disposal deck. The boar lvl 5 skill works great with Neanders too.
Also, about levelling up Wight: there is actually a significant difference past level 5. Since it levels exponentially, The damage skyrockets in Guild Maps. There is also a noticeable difference in pvp as well since a level 8 Death Curse, for example, will 2 shot most unbuffed cards in the game while something like a level 5 will take a few hits.
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Post by vatuma on May 21, 2015 14:03:47 GMT
ÐARҞNESS, stuuu✪NFS, is Full Alert the Neander talent? Could you please update wiki page about talents? stuuu✪NFS, what talents do you advise for Wight? Why? Why do you list human, faen and neander talents as good but the best hero - Wight? Why Spiky is bad? I thought it's the best ant-magic talent... Could you please explain in more details? derpy✪NFS, Thank you for such a detailed reply. But Berserker can get Spiky Bits. Doesn't it help?
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Post by stuuu✪NFS on May 21, 2015 14:31:08 GMT
ÐARҞNESS, stuuu✪NFS, is Full Alert the Neander talent? Could you please update wiki page about talents? stuuu✪NFS, what talents do you advise for Wight? Why? Why do you list human, faen and neander talents as good but the best hero - Wight? Why Spiky is bad? I thought it's the best ant-magic talent... Could you please explain in more details? derpy✪NFS, Thank you for such a detailed reply. But Berserker can get Spiky Bits. Doesn't it help? By sick, I mean really super great. Spikey Bits 8+ totally crushes a whole lot of decks that might otherwise be difficult. For Wight I recommend Undying, Cripple, and Strength with no hesitation.
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Post by fani on May 21, 2015 18:27:06 GMT
Wight is almost the best 4*-hero. Death curse lives up to its Name. Combined with the typical mortii stategy (rebirth etc.) this deck will be ultimative.
Paw master is lovely, spikey bits is ultimative and full alert is also good. But his skill is an active and passive skill, no surprise. no incredible strengh.
Dragon rider is good, but I believe also overrated. Not such incredible strong.
Royal guard is maybe the weakest 4*-hero because of his passive and None active skill.
Devil hunter is good, it depends on the usage of him. He is especially nice with magic Cards.
I don't own the other 4*-heroes, but maybe one day...
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Post by aketto on May 21, 2015 20:45:24 GMT
I don't know why everyone hate Devil Hunter so much I'm a huge fan of it. Combine a high level Devil Hunter with good magic cards and you will have a hell of a deck. Devil Hunter is NOT good for auto, but I'm telling you that even Neander deck with Spiky bits isn't a problem. You just have to wait until Spiky bits is not active and then deploy the magic hitters. Combine that hero with Battle set 10 and Agile 10 and you wipe out all enemy creatures in 2 turns. So Devil Hunter is a good hero in my opinion, but it depends on the cards you have. Other than him I also think that Wight is the strongest 4* hero and now I'm upgrading his skills. Berserker is a close second. And in my opinion there goes the Devil Huntrer.
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Post by ℜ★Naruto on May 21, 2015 20:47:38 GMT
Wait till you guys face a Lv8+ dragon, you will change your mind My personal list: 1. Dragon Rider = Berserker 2. Wight 3. Devil Hunter 4. Paw Master / Predator / Deathmort (undying, nuff said) 5. Royal Guard But it also depends alot on your deck. Undying is useless if you have revive etc.
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Post by Absoul on May 22, 2015 0:55:15 GMT
You guys underestimate predator. A high level predator is just as good as wight, berserker or dragon rider.
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Post by ℜ★Xega on May 22, 2015 3:10:37 GMT
IMO, assuming all level 10
1. Dragon Rider 2. Wight 3. Berserker 4. Predator 5. Devil Hunter
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Post by mnmm33 on May 22, 2015 8:00:40 GMT
My list for 10 lvl 4* heroes would be maybe this one. 1. Berserk 2. Dragon Rider 3. Wight 4. Devil hunter / Predator 5. Paw Master / Deathmort 6. Royal Guard
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Post by argamoroth on May 22, 2015 8:34:43 GMT
I guess my rankings would be the same as Naruto's Conversely if we assume all heroes to be level 1 this would be my list 1. Royal Guard /Devil Hunter 2. Wight / Paw Master 3. Berserker 4. Predator 5. Dragon rider / Deathmort While not totally necessary I find it interesting to look at from this viewpoint Edit: Since no one has pointed it out yet, Zero Kelvin and Bonewall are 5* human, you can find Ice shell and Dusk shield on 4*
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Post by derpy✪NFS on May 22, 2015 11:59:42 GMT
You guys underestimate predator. A high level predator is just as good as wight, berserker or dragon rider. Yeah, I dunno. Maaaybe at lv 10, because shutting down the enemy hero abilities is real powerful, and he survives forever, but he doesn't provide any intrinsic offence of his own, and you can only get 1 at a time. Compare that to getting overrun by 3 boars that stack attack in seconds and come back as fast as you kill them, or a dragon that dodges 50% of all attacks, 1 hits anything after a few rounds, and deals 350 flaming to all whenever targeted. Let's just forget Deathmort in this because he is probably the worst 4* hero except Royal Guard. That puppet is just garbage, even at lv 10 it really sucks compared to the other 3.
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Post by stuuu✪NFS on May 22, 2015 16:27:22 GMT
It's worth mentioning that it takes 750 shards to get from lvl 8 to lvl 10 so while lvl 10 summoners are ridunculously good, I'll die of old age before I get one. Re: Naruto - it may surprise you to find out that we don't all have 2 revive so undying can be critical. My biggest complaint with Berserker is that it's quite difficult to get rid of Frost Armor creatures. Most bullseye creatures are pretty lame. Berserker is absurdly good against a lot of decks and he may be moving up to number 1 soon. I ran him almost exclusively to get through 11 and 12. Problem in pvp is that a lot of people have stopped running magic damage so spikey bits doesn't do anything. I guess there is the occasional Harbinger soul swap or Light Brave Bolt, but that's about it for the common creatures. Dragon Rider just doesn't do it for me. I like him with Ice Shell and Firestorm and they are both always useful, but the poor dragon gets killed really easily and it can take a while to get to another one. When he isn't getting killed he's just a 'meh' critter and getting more rage while he's out doesn't help the fight. He makes up for his shortcomings against Spirit Siren and Gorgon as they set off his burn ability, but that's about it. Predator is awful because its lvl 5 skill is no good unless you have a deck full of faen which is probably going to be a no good deck because faen is seriously lacking in good creatures or even creatures worth melding. Horned Beast and Light Brave are fine, but what else? Nothing. So yay for the teddy bear's Faen specific Mass Heal. The rage decrease thing is nice I guess. I dunno, maybe once I get his skills up I'll like it better. Agile and Entrap perhaps?
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Post by vatuma on May 25, 2015 9:23:18 GMT
Updated the first post with the info from the discussion
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Post by Hitmus2✪NFS(xerks) on May 25, 2015 9:47:39 GMT
Right now I have Wight, Devil Hunter and Dragon Rider for my 4 star Heroes though anytime this week I will have both Paw and Berserker.
I'm really satisfied with wight as my main since alot I can do good with it. Devil Hunter is also very good hero especially with creatures that have great synergy with it eg. aoe creatures. The thing is I really find Dragon Rider unusable for now eventhough I leveled him up and also have a lot of nice human creatures to go with him. I simple don't use him anymore in Tournaments for my 3rd deck. I prefer a 3 star Neander over it that result me in alot of wins especially on offensive end.
That's my opinion for now. When rune function comes let us see if it will change.
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Post by vatuma on May 26, 2015 7:14:44 GMT
I stopped using Neander/Spiky Bits in Tournament because it always lost. One deck had 4 Pegasus Lord, 3 Flame Braves and 2 Naga Mistresses and Spiky Bits 8 loses? How can it be? How was the battle going? Maybe you are talking about defense?
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Post by mortivore on May 26, 2015 8:51:36 GMT
Predator and DR is best at lvl 10. At mid lvls wight and Berserker is the best.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 16:47:48 GMT
One for each faction
Berserker with spiky bits and full alert Wight with cripple and undying Predator with agile and (rejuvenate or deathcloud) Dargon Rider with ice shell and deathcloud
this is the way to go imo. i have royal guard instead of rider but hes still good.
btw go for all 8 heroes to help in guild wars and gauntlet.
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Post by mingying on May 29, 2015 5:41:07 GMT
Predator is nice i think... only when we can manually put the cards. For auto battles i trust it to wight because the cripple ensures good early regardless of what i got in the first draws.
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Post by derpy✪NFS on May 29, 2015 10:08:40 GMT
How can it be? How was the battle going? Maybe you are talking about defense? Nope I was on offense with Neanders against Faen on defense. This isn't a one time thing. My Spiky Bits will lose 4/5 against magic decks. What does your deck look like? That might be a part of the problem. Against any deck with at least 2 big sources of magic (i.e pyre, tempest or 2 spells like flame mage), I almost never lose with my Neander deck.
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Post by mortivore on May 29, 2015 10:14:40 GMT
Nope I was on offense with Neanders against Faen on defense. This isn't a one time thing. My Spiky Bits will lose 4/5 against magic decks. What does your deck look like? That might be a part of the problem. Against any deck with at least 2 big sources of magic (i.e pyre, tempest or 2 spells like flame mage), I almost never lose with my Neander deck. In pure nander decks spiky bits go of right away, if opponent team got many recycle/revive, its easy to come back
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Post by derpy✪NFS on May 29, 2015 10:18:21 GMT
Sure, but you have to take that into account before attacking. You need a different tactic as soon as revive gets involved, pure reliance on spiky bits is very risky.
Generally recycle doesn't matter to my neander deck, if they have magic the tempo is set early when they get 4/5 creatures instantly decimated, whilst my deck is buffing and the boars start coming out. By the time they recycle a few cards, most of my deck is set up and mashing their hero- and their cards drop as fast as they come out.
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Post by mortivore on May 29, 2015 11:11:34 GMT
Depends, if its predator, you wont get any boars and hero killing is hard.
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Post by derpy✪NFS on May 29, 2015 14:42:17 GMT
Well, first up- SQ is a bad pick. The 2 Nean's aren't worth it. I would replace those 3 with a trio of Blood Warlocks, try and meld them with dodge. You are missing a recycle, so you could sub one of those out with a decent recycle critter for insurance.
The skills are good, but you really need it up to lv 5 to get the maximum out. Once it's lv 5, by the time the spiky carnage has worn off, you should have 1/2 boars buffing your attack- that really helps finish the battle quick before they can start recycling back into the battle.
I think the lack of a recycle critter and any heal (none of your creatures heal) is hurting you bad. VT is disposing one of your creatures, and you can't get it back.
For what it's worth, I'm running HB w/recycle, Nidhogg, Huntress, Graboid, Ursa, Ursa, Tidal Siren, Warlock w/dodge, Warlock, Tauros Elder. I leave SQ on the bench because it screws up spiky bits (fwiw so does HB, but it's a crucial safeguard in case things go wrong).
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Post by megapuncher on May 29, 2015 14:54:58 GMT
What does your deck look like? That might be a part of the problem. Against any deck with at least 2 big sources of magic (i.e pyre, tempest or 2 spells like flame mage), I almost never lose with my Neander deck. Anathema, Spider Queen, Venom Tyrant, Nean Raptor, Nean Raptor, Ursa Major, Ursa Major, Panther Chief, Icy Huntress, Graboid Lv.3 Berserker with Aura 8, Spiky Bits 8 & Full Alert 9 I'm not seeing how weaker, magic-filled Faen decks with no Miasma or Recycle beat my deck.
There is your problem: "Spider Queen, Venom Tyrant, ... ... ... Lv.3 Berserker " Sac is not good for Neander Deck with no Revive/Recycle - until you have enough Rev/Rec use sac cards only in Morti decks. Immunity does not have a good synergy with Spiky Get your Zerk to lvl 5 - until then avoid using it anywhere except maps.
Get yourself 2x Bloody Warlocks melded with Earth Totem. If you can get another Anathema/Nidhogg - put them in ASAP. Panther Chief - meld frost armor on it. Ursa Major - good with immunity 7, but has no place in Spiky deck
Twins - where are those??? Even last daily login 4* - where is that one??? These cards would be better in spiky deck.
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