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Post by Hitmus✪NFS on Sept 20, 2015 15:46:29 GMT
No idea how it will be nerfed/balanced Maybe some other members knows more but I can only guess. Maybe not at all. Lets see. When maybe with next update I guess end of month?.
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Post by REZA on Sept 20, 2015 15:49:53 GMT
Hi i just have seen ticket where IGG said that stab through will be nerfed. I spend over, 1.000.000 glory on it. So I am creating ticket right away to give back mine 1.000.000 glory if it happens. So I advice stop develop stab runes. Plus 20 sm( many gems spend to hunt sm) , 20 Graboids... 50.000.000 gold minimum wasted if nerf will happen.
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Post by Let_it_be on Sept 20, 2015 15:57:31 GMT
Probably remove stabrune from 2* and be it a 4* Then delete it from all account and give 2 or 3 each
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Post by Mandragora on Sept 20, 2015 16:07:42 GMT
Probably remove stabrune from 2* and be it a 4* Then delete it from all account and give 2 or 3 each How does it changes anything?
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Post by rafutela✪NFS on Sept 20, 2015 16:24:23 GMT
Probably remove stabrune from 2* and be it a 4* Then delete it from all account and give 2 or 3 each How does it changes anything? He probably meant to make it less common. Make it a low drop rate. For example, Life sap is a 4* rune I don't have a chance to get just 1 :x
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Post by Mandragora on Sept 20, 2015 16:27:16 GMT
How does it changes anything? He probably meant to make it less common. Make it a low drop rate. For example, Life sap is a 4* rune I don't have a chance to get just 1 :x I see, but if they refund them right away it will be pointless. Even without a refund its the same thing if the rune does the same stuff.
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Post by rafutela✪NFS on Sept 20, 2015 17:20:01 GMT
He probably meant to make it less common. Make it a low drop rate. For example, Life sap is a 4* rune I don't have a chance to get just 1 :x I see, but if they refund them right away it will be pointless. Even without a refund its the same thing if the rune does the same stuff. If you get 2 or 3 like he said it will be not enough to make a whole stab deck, still not enough to clear map 13 and 14.
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Post by Karadoras on Sept 20, 2015 17:29:14 GMT
It wil just take more time that way wouldnt it, the end results would be the same, with just more time spent to achieve it, that wont do much at all as a whole me thinks... ^^
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Post by rafutela✪NFS on Sept 20, 2015 19:01:52 GMT
It wil just take more time that way wouldnt it, the end results would be the same, with just more time spent to achieve it, that wont do much at all as a whole me thinks... ^^ Yes, but to get a full deck it will take several month. That's enough to release new cards which will bring new strategies
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Post by Mandragora on Sept 20, 2015 19:04:01 GMT
What about just changing the stupid rune?
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Post by drakkan on Sept 20, 2015 20:02:11 GMT
The biggest problem with nerfing stab is resources lost. It takes a month to farm just 1 stabboid. For some players its a huge tempo loss. And as Hitmus said, we paid for it (energy, explore refresh, boosters, ..) so we are customers. OFC compensation is expected. Some don't have luxury of saying "well ok, 1 deck more or less". Anyways, you cannot get Dragonlord by Stabthrough only as you need to kill all creatures so its not a proper "reward". Edit. And I just remembered all the essences needed to lvl all that to lvl15... The thing is you also got easier map exploration, which gives plenty of resources in return. ...and trials ...and people climbed through Arena, Tournament and did Gauntlet with it Now, someone that just arrived to map 10 (or is not even there) and didn't had the chance to get all those benefits... If people that made use of sth decks get more compensation it would be unfair for any new player The access to new resources (creatures and mazes for example) that you have thanks to sth decks may allready be an unfair gap for someone that was just a month late to the party Glory, essences, gold...you can get a fair amount of that back just by recycling your runes and creatures, I think people should start figuring how to get the most Well all those resources/money/essences spent would go to other cards .. that would still be used in gauntlet/maps/tournaments/trials .. Its not really fair that I lose a month-and-a-half of game play either .. its not my fault someone messed that up .. gold - I mostly used gems for melding. glory - ok, recycle runes.. creatures -> what about my swordsmasters .. I could have bb8, venom edge, recycle sw instead of those 3 ..and they are not farmable .. grabboids also, but at least you can farm them (slowly but can) essences -> did not recycle lvl15 creatures so far .. is it possible they are worth ~50 lvl 4 essences? about that "profit": - trials profit wouldnt differ much - arena - I already cleared arena1 before stabthr - tournament -> not long enough in tournament to get some big profit - gauntlet -> all those resources from stabthr in other cards would help - maps -> not nearly worth all resources spent - dont know what's "easier map exploration" also, someone said: when one strategy becomes "dominant" its a sign to nerf it .. well revive is a dominant strategy. What do you think about removing revive? And all those Fafnirs, Mimirs, DragonLords etc lost .. without giving anything in return? I guess you wouldnt think that is fair then. The biggest difference between revive and stabthrough is .. that st is easy to get .. and that it ruins whole $$$ system. Which I agree and understand. But why do I need to pay (and I mean real money pay) for others mistakes?
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Post by ℳarty on Sept 20, 2015 20:43:41 GMT
How can you compare revive with stab lol. A single card cancel revive, its called Paragon. And you need a whole bunch of op cards to have a successful revive deck Anyway. Nothing to do with a cheap farmable stabs deck, who only need 5 random sweeping blow creatures and a bunch of 2* runes to own about any other decks outhere.
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Post by ÐARҞNESS on Sept 20, 2015 21:21:35 GMT
So, I beat map 14-3 to 14-11, even unlocked the hidden dungeon, with 5 cards. I have no revive, nor recycle two's, but I beat the maps like a joke. That's not easier exploration? But it seems those who're so against the nerf favor this way of playing. Comparing revive to stab is incredibly ridiculous, think of all the gems needed to get a revive as compared to what it takes to build a stab deck.
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Post by drakkan on Sept 20, 2015 21:29:55 GMT
How can you compare revive with stab lol. A single card cancel revive, its called Paragon. And you need a whole bunch of op cards to have a successful revive deck Anyway. Nothing do to be a cheap farmable stabs deck, who only need 5 random sweeping blow creatures and a bunch of 2* runes to own about any other decks outhere. How do you mean I cannot compare them? They both are the 2 best game mechanics that can take you high in Tournament. And I compared them as someone (you?) said "when a strategy becomes dominant, then its time to consider nerfing it". So we come to what I said .. its not the problem that stab is OP, the problem is that it is easy to get .. for everyone .. which I do understand, but as you value your resources/time that it took you to get some good melds, I also value mine ..
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Post by ÐARҞNESS on Sept 20, 2015 21:34:28 GMT
How can you compare revive with stab lol. A single card cancel revive, its called Paragon. And you need a whole bunch of op cards to have a successful revive deck Anyway. Nothing do to be a cheap farmable stabs deck, who only need 5 random sweeping blow creatures and a bunch of 2* runes to own about any other decks outhere. How do you mean I cannot compare them? They both are the 2 best game mechanics that can take you high in Tournament. And I compared them as someone (you?) said "when a strategy becomes dominant, then its time to consider nerfing it". So we come to what I said .. its not the problem that stab is OP, the problem is that it is easy to get .. for everyone .. which I do understand, but as you value your resources/time that it took you to get some good melds, I also value mine .. No, the problem is that stab is OP. You know, the funny thing is a lot of us have invested a lot in stab as well, look at some of the Royals, but we did it to exploit it for IGG to fix it. Revive doesn't give as much of an advantage as you're claiming, there are quite a few members in higher tournament ranks without either a revive or a recycle 2.
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Post by drakkan on Sept 20, 2015 21:37:27 GMT
So, I beat map 14-3 to 14-11, even unlocked the hidden dungeon, with 5 cards. I have no revive, nor recycle two's, but I beat the maps like a joke. That's not easier exploration? But it seems those who're so against the nerf favor this way of playing. Comparing revive to stab is incredibly ridiculous, think of all the gems needed to get a revive as compared to what it takes to build a stab deck. Yes it is easier exploration (didnt know what you mean by "exploration" as you usually explore a map for shards) and no argue there. I only want to say that just having map14 unlocked totally is not worth all resources spent. (aside of Michael .. but I can live without him) "those who are against the nerf favor this way" -> Im not against nerf. And "favour" .. lol .. is comment necessary at all for that statement.. so you think those players would mind playing with revive fafnir/dragonlord/mimir, ... Oceanuses, Light Hands and others? "gems needed" -> so if stabthrough was more expensive to build and out of the reach of most players then it would be ok? .. wtf
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Post by ÐARҞNESS on Sept 20, 2015 21:43:01 GMT
So, I beat map 14-3 to 14-11, even unlocked the hidden dungeon, with 5 cards. I have no revive, nor recycle two's, but I beat the maps like a joke. That's not easier exploration? But it seems those who're so against the nerf favor this way of playing. Comparing revive to stab is incredibly ridiculous, think of all the gems needed to get a revive as compared to what it takes to build a stab deck. Yes it is easier exploration (didnt know what you mean by "exploration" as you usually explore a map for shards) and no argue there. I only want to say that just having map14 unlocked totally is not worth all resources spent. (aside of Michael .. but I can live without him) "those who are against the nerf favor this way" -> Im not against nerf. And "favour" .. lol .. is comment necessary at all for that statement.. so you think those players would mind playing with revive fafnir/dragonlord/mimir, ... Oceanuses, Light Hands and others? "gems needed" -> so if stabthrough was more expensive to build and out of the reach of most players then it would be ok? .. wtf I can see you decide to take your own train of thought to make a pointless statement. If stabthrough cost thousands of gems to make, you really think you'd be seeing this thread here? No, you'd have the same anti spenders complaining about it like they do about the other things that require investment. If so many had a problem with how difficult the maps were, why didn't any of them choose to address IGG on the issue, instead of choosing to abuse something that was clearly looked over by IGG?
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Post by nin7 on Sept 20, 2015 22:18:56 GMT
I knew I should have stayed far away from this thread... drakkan "But why do I need to pay (and I mean real money pay) for others mistakes?" Because you are playing a game and choosed to spend money instead of playing for free to get an edge exploiting an overpowered mechanic that you allready understand that makes the game less viable For the game to be viable in the mid-long term, it's economy has to work...and also there need to be shifts in the meta so it doesn't become stagnant The meta can change through the introduction of new Heroes, Creatures, Runes and other features...but also in some cases through nerfs and rebalances (as with most other online games). I'm starting to think that if igg had just introduced a new Hero Rune making st much less viable as a strategy, there would be much less fuss about it Sorry, you have a point, and a good one, but there are also good points against your opinion For example: "I want igg to be able to introduce changes in the game to make it better and keep it viable, and if they need to consider all the effects of those changes and compensate for them it will be close to imposible" More: "If whenever the meta shifts igg compensates players for the loss of relative power of their decks, then new players will never be able to compete unless they spend much more money than the previous ones, and without new players the game will die in no time"
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Post by ℳarty on Sept 20, 2015 22:19:22 GMT
1 fact remain, dh is ads free game, and for you to play this game f2p, they need peoples buying gems. Why would you buy gems when Stab make it possible to beat IGG strongest and most expensive heroes/cards with easy farmable cards, it just shouldn't happen on a business view.
Players like Mikhail and Guest911 get stabed, just take a look at their decks and tell me stab ain't op...
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Post by derpy✪NFS on Sept 20, 2015 23:19:38 GMT
The thing is you also got easier map exploration, which gives plenty of resources in return. ...and trials ...and people climbed through Arena, Tournament and did Gauntlet with it Now, someone that just arrived to map 10 (or is not even there) and didn't had the chance to get all those benefits... If people that made use of sth decks get more compensation it would be unfair for any new player The access to new resources (creatures and mazes for example) that you have thanks to sth decks may allready be an unfair gap for someone that was just a month late to the party Glory, essences, gold...you can get a fair amount of that back just by recycling your runes and creatures, I think people should start figuring how to get the most Well all those resources/money/essences spent would go to other cards .. that would still be used in gauntlet/maps/tournaments/trials .. Its not really fair that I lose a month-and-a-half of game play either .. its not my fault someone messed that up .. gold - I mostly used gems for melding. glory - ok, recycle runes.. creatures -> what about my swordsmasters .. I could have bb8, venom edge, recycle sw instead of those 3 ..and they are not farmable .. grabboids also, but at least you can farm them (slowly but can) essences -> did not recycle lvl15 creatures so far .. is it possible they are worth ~50 lvl 4 essences? about that "profit": - trials profit wouldnt differ much - arena - I already cleared arena1 before stabthr - tournament -> not long enough in tournament to get some big profit - gauntlet -> all those resources from stabthr in other cards would help - maps -> not nearly worth all resources spent - dont know what's "easier map exploration" also, someone said: when one strategy becomes "dominant" its a sign to nerf it .. well revive is a dominant strategy. What do you think about removing revive? And all those Fafnirs, Mimirs, DragonLords etc lost .. without giving anything in return? I guess you wouldnt think that is fair then. The biggest difference between revive and stabthrough is .. that st is easy to get .. and that it ruins whole $$$ system. Which I agree and understand. But why do I need to pay (and I mean real money pay) for others mistakes? Actually, you've still missed a large point here. Revive is *not* a strategy. It's an ability which is used as part of a bunch of strategies. If you have garbage cards, or indeed a 5 card deck, revive is NOTHING. Revive is only as good as the cards backing it, and it works with a vast array of cards, all of which can be used to counter each other. That's what creates an interesting meta. Yes, the meta is centred somewhat around revive, and it's one of the more OP skills- but Paragon shuts it down without any recourse. A single card counters it completely. Not only that, but it defeats the entire revive/recycle/rebirth/deathless chain. Now you could argue Paragon is OP- but it doesn't contribute much except that. The difference is, by countering revive using Paragon, you don't just gimp your deck against everything else like you do with stabthrough. A stabthrough defence deck is now gimped against any other type of deck. THAT is broken. 'Strategy' at the top end is varied- hero killing through legitimate means (mass Puppeteers were a thing before stabthrough, but way more balanced), board control, FA heavy decks, bullseye heavy decks, faction buffing decks, magic decks, lockdown decks- THOSE are strategies. Just dumping revive down is not a strategy. It's nothing to do with p2w directly. I'm practically f2p, and I've spent a lot of time to build my deck to the point it's at now. All that time farming Twins, Graboids, and getting my heros to lv9- not to mention the 5* heros gradually farmed from tournaments, and the 5* cards painstakingly farmed from guild maps (collecting 250 Anathema shards- that's no joke, honestly). I didn't pay money, but my deck shouldn't be beatable by an unlevelled 4* hero with a handful of melded 3* cards. That's just ridiculous. Anyone that can't see that is deluding themselves. And I would have said the exact same thing 3 months ago, before my deck was at this stage- because I want the challenge of making a legitimate deck, regardless of the time investment. And a competitive environment to use it in, not a meta centred around stabthrough
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Post by amidala on Sept 21, 2015 0:54:57 GMT
Since it's about stabthrough and I'm actually glad that Hitmus made it famous, so I could at least cleared map 13 as F2P, here's my 2 cents. Let's define few things here. Broken - It means certain function was not working as it was intended. If stabthrough supposedly to have a max of 2k, then it should have a max 2k. If it goes more in a blow, it would be 'broken'. Balance out game - In this case, it means to actually define stabthrough as OP (or underpowered) and hence needs to be nerfed / buffed up. Nerfed - Reducing out the effectiveness of a skill / attributes. There are 2 ways to 'win' the card game. Either you kill the hero, or you kill their cards. Stabthrough meta changes the way we could kill the hero, as it uses the % of the hero's health to damage them. This renders the amount of hero's health irrelevant, and we only require the quantity of hits to kill the hero. The strategy to use stabthrough to win the game is quite simple, kill the hero as quick as possible, OR prolong the game so the stabthrough card could do its damage. Any hero kill deck favor this type of arrangement, even with Dark Witches deck. Current meta suggested that Dark Witches to be melded with Discord as the best meld DW could have. Let's look into what's actually people complaining why stabthrough is broken. - It's easy to make - well... try farming 18 gabroids, 12 swordmasters, or even 18 border rangers, not to mention lvling up the runes to make them usable. - Overpowered - We also have people argues that they are easy to counter. Both of these statements cannot be true, and let's look why both of them may be true. - Overpowered - If you spent time to create a SPECIFIC strategy deck that involves the same amount of effort of having farming e.g 18 gabroids, 12 swordmasters, and lvling up the runes and even spending time to ADJUST your deck to be able to COUNTER "MOST" type of deck. WOULDN'T YOU want to be OVERPOWERED? It changes how we see the 'how to win' at this game, and hence at our current state, people may see it as 'overpowered'. - Easy to counter - There is no deck that could win all simply. Read on my Deck Building to understand my view on this deckheroes.freeforums.net/thread/2704/deck-building-amidalaI don't see how Stabthrough is 'OP'. Just like any 'GREAT' deck, you could create one to win against almost any type of deck, but NOT ALL. The only good thing about Stabthrough is, it's 'easier' to farm than most, and it's do-able to our current meta game, at least the way that we know the game so far. That is, until Hitmus found another way to create a great do-able way to help beat the game. (i'm still strugling on map 14, even with stabthrough) I don't want to see them change how ST works, unless if it's broken.
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Post by ÐARҞNESS on Sept 21, 2015 1:09:07 GMT
I have a 5 card stab deck with lvl 8 runes, map 14-8 medium and hard I did in less than 15 turns with those 5 cards. I'm struggling to understand how people fail to see that this is not how stab was intended to work.
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Post by sonbalin on Sept 21, 2015 1:19:28 GMT
One amusing thing is how nobody has every said Curse/Godswill is useless, yet a 5 card Stab deck that is WAY more effective at doing the same job as a full Curse deck is somehow balanced.
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Post by amidala on Sept 21, 2015 1:21:48 GMT
I have a 5 card stab deck with lvl 8 runes, map 14-8 medium and hard I did in less than 15 turns with those 5 cards. I'm struggling to understand how people fail to see that this is not how stab was intended to work. You'll have to look into how the game mechanics was intended to work, not how it's being 'played'. Broken means that, for example, if their intention was only being able to deal 2k damage max damage per blow, hence a gabroid / border ranger would probably only be able to do 6k damage max if it proc. As it uses %, it made the Hero's health irrelevant, hence only the quantity of hits becomes only relevant point. If this was their intention, and it worked, then in terms of mechanics it is not broken. For example, they want to have a way to win the game by having a 'quantity' of blow, and making the hero's max health irrelevant. This is the game mechanics. It's just simply, we found a way to make it work with current meta. The only thing that the devs probably weren't ready for was that, how players (us) could be very creative to work with these mechanics. In your words then, maybe could you define 'how' stabthrough should and was intended to work?
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Post by Sithys [BK] on Sept 21, 2015 2:06:50 GMT
Amidala, you're making pvp points for a pve argument. Sth is OP against explorer maps, which are set opponents that dont adjust to player strategy. In that arena, sth is OP.
People need to suck it up and stop the whining. If you jumped on the bandwagon and spent resources on buying into a mechanic that made an aspect of the content lololololol easy, then you should have realised you were investing in a venture with a short lifespan. If you didnt realise that, you need to learn to rub some brain cells together before committing to a course of action, it doesn't take a genius to figure out this was always going to happen.
Honestly if IGG give in to recompense tickets over this, I will be shaking my head in disappointment at their stupidity in placating a bunch of idiot whiny children who are incapable of taking responsibility for their own choices and actions.
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Post by KUPAL on Sept 21, 2015 2:55:55 GMT
0.1 means useless. But as angel was replaced. So maybe all mine staboids and sm will be replaced by frost blade 10. Or other skill. And mine stab runes for Bilion glory for free glory points and they can remove mine stab runes from account like angel. Do you use billion glory points for your staboid deck?
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Post by KUPAL on Sept 21, 2015 3:07:46 GMT
Since it's about stabthrough and I'm actually glad that Hitmus made it famous, so I could at least cleared map 13 as F2P, here's my 2 cents. Let's define few things here. Broken - It means certain function was not working as it was intended. If stabthrough supposedly to have a max of 2k, then it should have a max 2k. If it goes more in a blow, it would be 'broken'. Balance out game - In this case, it means to actually define stabthrough as OP (or underpowered) and hence needs to be nerfed / buffed up. Nerfed - Reducing out the effectiveness of a skill / attributes. There are 2 ways to 'win' the card game. Either you kill the hero, or you kill their cards. Stabthrough meta changes the way we could kill the hero, as it uses the % of the hero's health to damage them. This renders the amount of hero's health irrelevant, and we only require the quantity of hits to kill the hero. The strategy to use stabthrough to win the game is quite simple, kill the hero as quick as possible, OR prolong the game so the stabthrough card could do its damage. Any hero kill deck favor this type of arrangement, even with Dark Witches deck. Current meta suggested that Dark Witches to be melded with Discord as the best meld DW could have. Let's look into what's actually people complaining why stabthrough is broken. - It's easy to make - well... try farming 18 gabroids, 12 swordmasters, or even 18 border rangers, not to mention lvling up the runes to make them usable. - Overpowered - We also have people argues that they are easy to counter. Both of these statements cannot be true, and let's look why both of them may be true. - Overpowered - If you spent time to create a SPECIFIC strategy deck that involves the same amount of effort of having farming e.g 18 gabroids, 12 swordmasters, and lvling up the runes and even spending time to ADJUST your deck to be able to COUNTER "MOST" type of deck. WOULDN'T YOU want to be OVERPOWERED? It changes how we see the 'how to win' at this game, and hence at our current state, people may see it as 'overpowered'. - Easy to counter - There is no deck that could win all simply. Read on my Deck Building to understand my view on this deckheroes.freeforums.net/thread/2704/deck-building-amidalaI don't see how Stabthrough is 'OP'. Just like any 'GREAT' deck, you could create one to win against almost any type of deck, but NOT ALL. The only good thing about Stabthrough is, it's 'easier' to farm than most, and it's do-able to our current meta game, at least the way that we know the game so far. That is, until Hitmus found another way to create a great do-able way to help beat the game. (i'm still strugling on map 14, even with stabthrough) I don't want to see them change how ST works, unless if it's broken. Correction. .. Ed is the Original,Founder of stab stab deckxD
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Post by HOAX on Sept 21, 2015 3:27:40 GMT
They aint gonna be a match for your rare 5* heroes and your crazy revive melds lol. How can you even talk when a bunch of you guys have dragonlord/revive or fafnir/revive etc etc. We aren't gonna mess up your game Farm paragon and stop complaining i dont have revive since last month and dont have a stab deck but i mnage to get rank 20.... dont hate for what you cant achieve because all you see is good stuff from other people that makes you believe they have those cards so they are too op.. i am farming my fifth thalassa atm and farming 4 star cards to put on my new deck and have a positive point of view that i can climb up in ranks more
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1216
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monkeylord
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Sept 21, 2015 4:09:15 GMT
September 2015
monkeylord
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Post by monkeylord on Sept 21, 2015 4:21:36 GMT
Stab is so clearly broken. There is now no facet of the game stab has not infiltrated. In gw your deck will assuredly eventually get beat by stab. The trials get beat by stab. Explorer map gets beat by stab. My arena is doninated by stab. The tournament is chaos. There is no ability to hold position, which has led to a huge two sided war at the top end. This is good for no one. If Royals of all people agree stab is too powerful . . . Believe it! They have little to gain by a stab nerf other than the fun of competition. I believe OP is incapable of competing without stab, and his concerns are entirely selfish. Compensation is a joke. OP has been compensated enough already.
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Royal
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ℜ★Xega
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March 2015
xega
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Post by ℜ★Xega on Sept 21, 2015 4:57:47 GMT
Stab is so clearly broken. There is now no facet of the game stab has not infiltrated. In gw your deck will assuredly eventually get beat by stab. The trials get beat by stab. Explorer map gets beat by stab. My arena is doninated by stab. The tournament is chaos. There is no ability to hold position, which has led to a huge two sided war at the top end. This is good for no one. If Royals of all people agree stab is too powerful . . . Believe it! They have little to gain by a stab nerf other than the fun of competition. I believe OP is incapable of competing without stab, and his concerns are entirely selfish. Compensation is a joke. OP has been compensated enough already. Royal of all people?! What does that mean? I'm pretty sure it'll be tough to hold positions in the top of tourney with or without hero killer decks. Although, I think raising hero HP of all heroes by 25% and capping stab damage at .3% per lvl vs. .5% or so would balance out the hero killer decks pretty well.
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