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Post by lotnar on Dec 12, 2016 7:17:12 GMT
Although it sound nobbish for a lv 89 player, I have a good bunch of crits for guild maps, but I never managed to get an outstanding amount of damage using Zora lv 5 as hero, in fact my lv 7 Berseker outdamage her heavily. With auto-fight I barely manage to get 50-100k damage while with Berseker the amount is at least double.
I have a good variety of crits and swap them per map specifics: - Drone lv 15 - 2 x Oracles FA7 - 2 x Panther Chiel FA7 - 1 Panther Chief IMM9 - 2 x Paladin FA7 - 2 x Tauro General FA7 - 2 x Collosus FA7 - 1 x Terror Dragon FA5 - 1 x Graboid Sac 8 - 1 x Graboid Livesap - 1 x Scorpio - 1 x Arcane Sage FA1 - 6 x Blood Warlock Earth Totem 6/7
So, what am I missing? What is the recipe for massive damage (and not based on Sac crits which are on certain maps)?
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Post by spizz0 on Dec 12, 2016 7:24:11 GMT
Zora requires good positioning of your creatures. Also you don't want to have too many frost armors otherwise the damage increase will be too slow. Try to play it manually at least some rounds and see the difference.
p.s. Michael(s) are extremely good with zora (Life sap / Blood rage / battleblow / i9)
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Post by Matt on Dec 12, 2016 8:27:15 GMT
You have so many creatures melded with FA - this will limit Zora's ability to increase your attack as you take little dmg. FA GM melds are good for Beserker while for Zora you want life sap/healing and less FA.
Spizz is right, Michael is great for full human Zora deck. Also you should have some good runes on him, especilay healing one. In general Zora will need some luck to do very high dmg but can even clear whole maps.
I make my GM deck for him with the following creatures: - 3 FA oracle + Imm oracle - BB Colossus - Michael BB, Michael Imm, (working on blood rage meld) - Drone only when there is magic - Life sap techno chief - Bloodlust swordmaster - for retreat maps I have FA grand mage, and FA/life sap graboids
Hope it helps Cheers
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 8:53:58 GMT
Looking at your deck I am surprised you hit just 100k. Panther immu 9 or even Mythril alone can do more than that. Especcially with Zora. They take a lot of damage that will transfered into ATK.
However, if you do auto-battle you definitely need some extra heal and bless. Also on auto, the life sap/unbound is likely to fail against dodge and FA crits.
I suggest one extra Frostacle and Seraph with Life Sap. Works like a charm: Human, Unbound, life sap, restoration and anger. Perfect in GM with Zora.
And as others suggested, you will need some bullseye too: Paladdin with FA, Michael with anything, Pit Dragon with life sap, Anathema with FA,...
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Post by cozy on Dec 12, 2016 10:41:16 GMT
Looks like you're short an Oracle. Probably Zora dies before damage goes up. You really just need one non fa on the field, and with a BL swordmaster it's negotiable. Positioning is absolutely important as every creature has to live and Zora doesn't help with that. I usually look at a map and count: - huge phys dmg or scaling, need fa - retreats/etc - is there big magic? Then I make a deck with three fa Oracle (I don't have any immunity or on occasion I'd use some), one stoneskin/i9 per retreat, more fa if needed, and drone if magic. Try to keep deck same size as enemy. Not getting drone when there's big magic dmg can clear your field before anything happens. I use Royal dragon fa for stoneskin, but as I only have one I use bloodletter also. Very nice damage but a single delay will be the end so not always workable. Fa terror dragon would be good, or stoneskin sentry angel. I use an i9 panther chief for versatility. He can last until drone gets out, can be stoneskin semi reliably, and gets huge damage rather quickly. He's the only thing I can put in front of an anethema. Hope some of that helps
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Post by icezaius on Dec 12, 2016 11:32:34 GMT
All good points made so far here. I would also suggest you may need a better hero vigor rune on zora, as well as a decent heal amplify rune. Both help immensely with zora. Your berserker deck Doran need as much hero health/healing cause the boars absorb a lot of damage. And now the hero kill after rnd 50 becomes a liability for zora. Also, let me continue to pimp mass heal seraph in a zora deck. She's a beast, especially with that heal amplify hero rune. Full human (mostly) is the way to go with zora. You can even do good damage with an all oracle deck if some are fa and some are only lvl 10. Remember too that because creature placement is sooo important with zora that you often CANNOT allow the opposing hero skill to be used. If one of you crits dies it often sets off a chain reaction and destroys you.
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Post by cozy on Dec 12, 2016 12:21:49 GMT
All good points made so far here. I would also suggest you may need a better hero vigor rune on zora, as well as a decent heal amplify rune. Both help immensely with zora. Your berserker deck Doran need as much hero health/healing cause the boars absorb a lot of damage. And now the hero kill after rnd 50 becomes a liability for zora. Also, let me continue to pimp mass heal seraph in a zora deck. She's a beast, especially with that heal amplify hero rune. Full human (mostly) is the way to go with zora. You can even do good damage with an all oracle deck if some are fa and some are only lvl 10. Remember too that because creature placement is sooo important with zora that you often CANNOT allow the opposing hero skill to be used. If one of you crits dies it often sets off a chain reaction and destroys you. Hero rune is totally right, however with only two Oracle's it's gonna be even worse as that increases dmg because it's based on total HP. Hero rune and third Oracle would be good.
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Post by pavian on Dec 12, 2016 12:41:13 GMT
nvm.
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Post by justnr1k on Dec 12, 2016 15:55:26 GMT
If you did auto battle since the beggining without caring about the position of your cards, it's obvious that you just failed. I've dont more than 1million damage with ALL FA5 creatures with the right positioning. Also, try not to you much FA, with Lifesap/Mass Heal/Faction HP Buffs/any kind of Self-sustain is enough to maximize your damage, 1.5-2.5mil damage is really common. Also you need more oracles, at least 3-4 oracles based on the hp of your zora, 25k-30k 3 oracles is enough to deal good dmg, more than 30k you may need few mores, but can also use Blood Warlocks instead.
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Post by ℜH★Wolfman on Dec 14, 2016 8:40:39 GMT
1x Drone 3x FA Oracle 2x I9 Panther Chief 1x LL Graboid or I7 Phantom Liege 2x FA Bullseye Crits like Michael/Paladin 1x Queen Tempress for opponent Hero rage reduction
will work again most opponent Guild-Decks with ZOA Hero up to 500K withhin 1000K+ . Hero shoud have 40K+ life .
By situation switch more heal (curse opponent), more stoneskin (retreat opponent) etc...
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Post by soussie on Dec 14, 2016 9:27:03 GMT
is 3 oracles really enough? im using 5 myself and i still feel like i could have more. im using the following.
1 time cancer 15 (voodoo) 4 times oracle fa 1 time oracle immunity. 2 time michael 1 time immunity 9 1 time bloodrage michael 1 time drone(bless) 1 that i switch depending on map useally bloodlust swordmaster or fa paladin.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2016 11:04:37 GMT
is 3 oracles really enough? im using 5 myself and i still feel like i could have more. im using the following. 1 time cancer 15 (voodoo) 4 times oracle fa 1 time oracle immunity. 2 time michael 1 time immunity 9 1 time bloodrage michael 1 time drone(bless) 1 that i switch depending on map useally bloodlust swordmaster or fa paladin. Depends on the map. GM-2 has a lot of hero killers. Then 5 Frostacles is better.
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Post by justnr1k on Dec 14, 2016 15:55:48 GMT
is 3 oracles really enough? im using 5 myself and i still feel like i could have more. im using the following. 1 time cancer 15 (voodoo) 4 times oracle fa 1 time oracle immunity. 2 time michael 1 time immunity 9 1 time bloodrage michael 1 time drone(bless) 1 that i switch depending on map useally bloodlust swordmaster or fa paladin. 5 is too much unless your are using a 100k hp hero, for gm the more hp your hero has, the more oracles you need and the less damage you deal since oracles do not have a good dmg..., 25k-50k is enough for guild maps (and 50k is kinda high...) 3-4oracles max.
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Post by soussie on Dec 14, 2016 17:23:59 GMT
is 3 oracles really enough? im using 5 myself and i still feel like i could have more. im using the following. 1 time cancer 15 (voodoo) 4 times oracle fa 1 time oracle immunity. 2 time michael 1 time immunity 9 1 time bloodrage michael 1 time drone(bless) 1 that i switch depending on map useally bloodlust swordmaster or fa paladin. 5 is too much unless your are using a 100k hp hero, for gm the more hp your hero has, the more oracles you need and the less damage you deal since oracles do not have a good dmg..., 25k-50k is enough for guild maps (and 50k is kinda high...) 3-4oracles max. hero has 32k health and the 5 oracles are more to keep my immunity oracle and michaels alive. the hero health is useally a problem cause of positioning cause useally i cant just put it down immediatly so there creatures useally hit my hero at least 1 or 2 times.
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Post by BK✦Singing on Dec 14, 2016 19:37:55 GMT
I have the same problem, with lockdown, Oracles are easily disabled so the hero dies. I am now working on 3 more i7 Oracles. My ultimate goal is a girl scout team, 4 fa grand mage plus 6 (3fa+3imm) oracles. Should be auto-able w/ zora.
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Post by justnr1k on Dec 15, 2016 0:42:09 GMT
I don't have such problems, well I have mytrill drone so magic lock down isn't relevant to me, as well as having 3 oracles isn't a problem neither, the chances of being look down by a paragon is 50%*30% = 15% at least 1 oracle, so it's very unlikely to get locked every turn causing your hero's death. The maximun number of oracles I've ever used is 4. But well, it seems it depends on the deck setup.
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Post by icezaius on Dec 15, 2016 2:06:01 GMT
I have the same problem, with lockdown, Oracles are easily disabled so the hero dies. I am now working on 3 more i7 Oracles. My ultimate goal is a girl scout team, 4 fa grand mage plus 6 (3fa+3imm) oracles. Should be auto-able w/ zora. mass heal seraph
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Post by BK✦Singing on Dec 15, 2016 6:29:40 GMT
Yes, of course. She will probably swap w/ grand mage. I have swamp of seraphs, they came initially just for the coupons, now they can continue serve the deck. One question, have you ever made bless seraph? Most of my GM crits are FA5 so several rounds of bleeding isn't a big deal. The hero is much more fragile.
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Post by Odysseus♞RK on Dec 15, 2016 7:19:56 GMT
What do you use to deal with bullseye crits then? Alot of FA will get shredded in a map with anathema.
The issue I have is when I need to swap out my zora for chaos witch to deal with the enemy hero skill my damage drops drastically as my deck is based off of zora dmg. QT farming is slow, are there any other suggestions?
@op - I currently use: 3 X FA Oracle FA panther (swap for lvl 15 unmelded if I can get away with it) BL Swordmaster Mithril drone FA paladin FA Royal knight *if bullseye FA royal dragon Either FA graboid or pontiff depending on disposal or not
Any advice appreciated
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Post by icyfist on Dec 15, 2016 7:28:13 GMT
I would recommend an I7 Panther Chief or a crit with a Block rune for Anathema. Block rune level 8 or higher against a Paladin.
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Post by icezaius on Dec 15, 2016 11:29:32 GMT
What do you use to deal with bullseye crits then? Alot of FA will get shredded in a map with anathema. The issue I have is when I need to swap out my zora for chaos witch to deal with the enemy hero skill my damage drops drastically as my deck is based off of zora dmg. QT farming is slow, are there any other suggestions? @op - I currently use: 3 X FA Oracle FA panther (swap for lvl 15 unmelded if I can get away with it) BL Swordmaster Mithril drone FA paladin FA Royal knight *if bullseye FA royal dragon Either FA graboid or pontiff depending on disposal or not Any advice appreciated an easy way around using chaos witch is to use a creature with a voodoo rune for rage control. Preferably spirit siren or gorgon as they have higher base hp and so can survive better. Or if you make something with frost armor, like a sentry angel with voodoo (i think you can get voodoo off a frost caller). That's a pretty much free meld as you should have about a million of each of those 2 creatures. As long as you put that crit far right, you will keep the rage from getting full.
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Post by justnr1k on Dec 15, 2016 15:06:51 GMT
Mass Heal and Bless Serpah is pretty nice for Guild Maps, she's really underrated for what she's cappable to do.
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Post by swordfish on Dec 27, 2016 4:43:44 GMT
I've been running Zora for at least a year in GM and do the highest damage of my friends. 1 mil damage is a satisfactory number to me; 1.8 is high (post hero kill nerf). I also usually manually play at least half of the placements. Zora: Currently level 7, 30k health (2k savage from enemy hero), and my back amplify is at +144. I typically run 5-6 oracles/support, drone, 2-3 damagers, 1 rage control. Of course it varies depending on the dungeon.
Support: I run a standard of 5-6 fa oracles; it is probably overkill but it allows for consistency. I also have a few unbound oracles who I pull out once in a while. I also use qt for rage control; if it is newly opened, I use voodoo sentry angel. Seraph is also a good support as she is super easy to collect, but I haven't utilized her at all. Grand Mage is also fantastic for her heal. I've Melded copies of her with fa and unbound and she is my #1 against retreat.
Attack: bb and blood rage Michael are critical. I also have one with unbound. Other less used crits are lifesap techno, fa paladin, Taurus, fa graboid,fa Colossus(early meld),and arcane sage.
Situational: cancer with block rune to counter rip and/or retreat or damage gainers. For a more attainable option of the above, fa Royal knight can help against rip or damage gain.
Random comments: -focus on survivability, then damage -don't stop farming oracles, ever -even if you like to auto, watch some matches to learn about the deck -keep everything human except for a few exceptions (Taurus, octavius, graboid, centaur chief, qt, etc.) -against discord, get unbound or just use a berserk/war hungry deck. Maybe for rip too. - I've tried stuff like unbound oracles, but fa is way more reliable, especially for auto -lifesap adds nice survivability, but you lose about 50% savage from loss of heal bonuses -don't be afraid to experiment and try something way out of the box; that is what brings the fun to the game.
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Post by soussie on Dec 27, 2016 8:04:27 GMT
I've been running Zora for at least a year in GM and do the highest damage of my friends. 1 mil damage is a satisfactory number to me; 1.8 is high (post hero kill nerf). I also usually manually play at least half of the placements. Zora: Currently level 7, 30k health (2k savage from enemy hero), and my back amplify is at +144. I typically run 5-6 oracles/support, drone, 2-3 damagers, 1 rage control. Of course it varies depending on the dungeon. Support: I run a standard of 5-6 fa oracles; it is probably overkill but it allows for consistency. I also have a few unbound oracles who I pull out once in a while. I also use qt for rage control; if it is newly opened, I use voodoo sentry angel. Seraph is also a good support as she is super easy to collect, but I haven't utilized her at all. Grand Mage is also fantastic for her heal. I've Melded copies of her with fa and unbound and she is my #1 against retreat. Attack: bb and blood rage Michael are critical. I also have one with unbound. Other less used crits are lifesap techno, fa paladin, Taurus, fa graboid,fa Colossus(early meld),and arcane sage. Situational: cancer with block rune to counter rip and/or retreat or damage gainers. For a more attainable option of the above, fa Royal knight can help against rip or damage gain. Random comments: -focus on survivability, then damage -don't stop farming oracles, ever -even if you like to auto, watch some matches to learn about the deck -keep everything human except for a few exceptions (Taurus, octavius, graboid, centaur chief, qt, etc.) -against discord, get unbound or just use a berserk/war hungry deck. Maybe for rip too. - I've tried stuff like unbound oracles, but fa is way more reliable, especially for auto -lifesap adds nice survivability, but you lose about 50% savage from loss of heal bonuses -don't be afraid to experiment and try something way out of the box; that is what brings the fun to the game.ive actually removed my michaels i use fa Paladin for bullseye or bloodlust swordmaster for damage i find them way to squishy i cant seem to keep them alive even with 5 oracles especially when im forced to put him down early.
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Post by swordfish on Dec 27, 2016 9:00:40 GMT
Yeah, the Michaels are fairly vulnerable, but if you can manage to keep them alive, they grow damage super fast. I don't have too tough a time of keeping them alive though because (1) I manual play (2) I got lucky with a heal amplify IV rune which I leveled to give +144 heal (3) I have Human vigor V rune to give +300 HP.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 14:50:35 GMT
I've been running Zora for at least a year in GM and do the highest damage of my friends. 1 mil damage is a satisfactory number to me; 1.8 is high (post hero kill nerf). I also usually manually play at least half of the placements. Zora: Currently level 7, 30k health (2k savage from enemy hero), and my back amplify is at +144. I typically run 5-6 oracles/support, drone, 2-3 damagers, 1 rage control. Of course it varies depending on the dungeon. Support: I run a standard of 5-6 fa oracles; it is probably overkill but it allows for consistency. I also have a few unbound oracles who I pull out once in a while. I also use qt for rage control; if it is newly opened, I use voodoo sentry angel. Seraph is also a good support as she is super easy to collect, but I haven't utilized her at all. Grand Mage is also fantastic for her heal. I've Melded copies of her with fa and unbound and she is my #1 against retreat. Attack: bb and blood rage Michael are critical. I also have one with unbound. Other less used crits are lifesap techno, fa paladin, Taurus, fa graboid,fa Colossus(early meld),and arcane sage. Situational: cancer with block rune to counter rip and/or retreat or damage gainers. For a more attainable option of the above, fa Royal knight can help against rip or damage gain. Random comments: -focus on survivability, then damage -don't stop farming oracles, ever -even if you like to auto, watch some matches to learn about the deck -keep everything human except for a few exceptions (Taurus, octavius, graboid, centaur chief, qt, etc.) -against discord, get unbound or just use a berserk/war hungry deck. Maybe for rip too. - I've tried stuff like unbound oracles, but fa is way more reliable, especially for auto -lifesap adds nice survivability, but you lose about 50% savage from loss of heal bonuses -don't be afraid to experiment and try something way out of the box; that is what brings the fun to the game. agree with most of it ,but not on the human thing. Neanders do very well in GM as well and Zora is Neander after all. Only 2 Neanders are needed to make good use of Neander Aura talent. Faboid and Panther chief with Unbound are nice additions to the deck. The Chief easily does 300k damage and probably much more. Faboid is excellent against the omnipresent Archdeva's, because of the ravage skill.
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