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Post by pypy on Mar 1, 2017 12:56:42 GMT
Hey all, I'm lv 92 STAR player with VS lv4 as main and a decent deck with some standard good melds. I rank top 20 in arena, but fun for me is setting up goals and working towards achieving them, rather than just having results. I did beat Japoon once in GB (ho ho ho ). So, I wanted to build an Alchemist deck as it seems like the most different than others and I get to use creatures I generally don't play, but I'd still like to optimize the deck. She's lv2 atm, 3 in a couple of days. Deck cost is atm 187/188, so not much wiggle room there. My EQ is lv 5 purple Planeswalker armor, rest is lv 3 oranges, have bunch of IV and V runes. Hero talents: Prot 7 (highest I've seen), Mass Charm and Group Tactics - all refreshes are at lv 9 at least. I'm not sure how I like these talents. MC is good to let them develop onto board, but I don't get any rage from hits, which is the same problem that GT has. Also, I've won a good chunk of games never even proccing her skill more than once-twice or on more than 1-2 creatures. I feel I could have just played my VS then for the same results. Which talent would you try to reroll first and are even Luci and Divine strictly better for this hero? Deck:
Swordmaster Venom Edge 7 (wanted to save SQs i9, but I could remeld it with VE8) Phantom Liege evo'd (upgraded Bolt to lv 5, aayy the synergy lol) Quetz evo'd Gemini Abaddon Paragon evo'd RQT HB fat8 HB rec1 Flare Summoner Bench: Ophiuchus Detonate In terms of hero skill activators, there are plenty of those, Quetz might be the iffy one, but his rebirth lets me just toss him out to get more rage. 2 sweepers to proc the FAs with additional skills to proc immunities seems ok. I don't think I need more magic casters than those 2, but I could replace Abaddon with any of the standard melds, like Naga, Dame, Flame Brave with Incinerate and so on. I kinda like Abaddon tho with his i9 and 6 turn wait, helps protect the hand from disposal. I would like to squeeze in Ophi, but I don't know who to take out. Anything else you would think fits better? Eye of Jonara, Spirit siren (I could either meld 1 or play multiple copies), Gorgon, Anathema FA, Ash Beast Frost Blade 10 (I don't think Frost blade procs the hero skill, not sure?). I was considering making something annoying like Puppeteer with fat8 type of skill? Maybe Bewitcher to proc multiple clones and discord? Sea Wizard is something to work towards. Any and all ideas and comments are welcomed and thank you for your time.
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Post by NFS✪Grandfather on Mar 1, 2017 13:20:25 GMT
Hey man,wellcome to the club of rare and oposite of all gamestyle,finaly someone who dont play this game like robot Im also working on my Alche deck,mine will be lvl 3 in 2 days so im also in that stage where im deciding what to put in that deck.From my point of view i will use cards who can triger immunity on enemy side even if Mythril is in play,so things like Gas Cloud,Fatigue,Delay...will work perfect but in order not to put just any cards with those skills i will go with this line up and see how it works in practice,here it is: Anathema, HB,Paragon,2 QT,Sagittarius,2 Flare Summoner,Nidhogg and Graboid. Its simple deck,you have here both defence and ofence,since i dont have much cards as f2p to work with i have to work with that line up and can only replace 1 or 2 cards with something else but thats it basicly.I saw guy with similar Alche deck beating Druides whore in 1 Melt Armor swing,so all you and me have to do is to asemble proper deck thats all,and since both of us aint in top ranks we dont care for all those OP melds and crazy decks on our range we are good to go with Alche. As for talents i would go for start with Mass charm and DS/GT until Lucidity apear one day,or even Flaming+Mass Charm can do job for time being. Thats it how im planing to use it and we will see how it works i will keep you informed about progress.
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Post by pypy on Mar 1, 2017 21:35:41 GMT
Thank you, thank you, should be loads of fun to make this deck work. The potential for nuking is there totally, just gotta find the proper balance. The only reason I don't like Anathema in this deck is obviously Bullseye, but I wonder in which case it is not better than just regular attack. I'm thinking something like double Melt Armor proc could be better without Bullseye, but even if you are up against Frost Armor, then Bullseye rune will buff the attack anyway to deal extra dmg and in that case you are basically only interested in getting the proc on creatures death and Anathema will have easier time achieving that.
So the question becomes then, in which case is Bullseye + 3 creature gas cloud worse than for example say Plague all, basic attack one and potentially Weakness one (if not dodged) from Quetz. Which creature has bigger chance to trigger more Melts as we are always looking to Melt armor on a big chunk of opponents board/creatures.
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Madness, as you know, is a lot like gravity; all it takes is a little push.
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Post by NFS✪Grandfather on Mar 1, 2017 22:46:12 GMT
I will use only 1 Anathema because you dont need to stolve fight and to wait for Melt Armor to do all work,when you reach that medium high rank with "big boys" then you can notice that if you wait too long to kill some of enemy cards then that can be pretty hard to win. Im almost done with melding Fatigue on Quetzal so i will give it a try,problem of Quetzal is 0 defence only rebirth can save him but if/when you face Paragon in battle then you will notice that problem but as long as hes untouched he can trigger Melta Armor so many times that enemy side will wipe itself in 1 turn,but as i said i will test it and see how it goes. Delay creatures are also great in Alche deck,Mythril can s**k so Paragon and Nidhogg are options for you,neander orianted deck doing well at beginning.Oh and dont just focus on skills who trigger Melt Armor,heal,HP boost and other stuff are also importan,rage control is crucial,keep that on mind.If you have Flame Summoner use it without thinking its super good for Alche deck with direct damage deal who stack and those defensive immunity and rampart.
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Post by tanisomsford on Mar 1, 2017 22:55:49 GMT
Quetzlcoatl is fairly use full here. Remember that plague, unlike poison, is a reduce max HP skill, which is pretty lethal against things that are meant to avoid damage. Drones are around a lot so, magic spam doesn't work in my deck as a stand alone deal.
But as a tournament attack deck, magic spam is your best friend. Incinerate melded flame braves are perfect for this. And because they hit with four magic skills in a row each, this will almost guarantee that melt Armor will light up any opponent that is slimed. You MUST, I repeat, MUST have rage gain cards. Injured rune, sac rune, RTQ's, even concealed strike rune if you're playing in THAT sandbox, but your decks success will depend greatly on activating melt Armor to acid splash the board and wipe out your opponent, even with as little as one flame brave.
Frost Armor is becoming so rare in the higher game play, that alchemist is a little outdated and needs to be updated to include rampart.
My alchemist is level 6, and I can say, that when you do manage to slime the board, then they will just die fast. It's crazy when the acid splash kicks in. My flame brave uses a lv 9 blaze rune to fire splash other cards too and the death explosions do around 400+ damage. If you are looking to do a revive meld, consider Abaddon for his Thor's Rage. Kitsune with Venom edge instead of frost blade activates immunity as well.
Sweeping blow was popular, but when you start climbing tourney ranks, you'll find that immunity becomes the only skill you are targeting with Alchemist.
Final thought is, my alchemist is cool at lv6, but I need her lv8 to be more effective against the tough matches now.
Hope this helps
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Post by rembrandt78 on Mar 2, 2017 3:00:55 GMT
Flame brave. Arcane sage Arcane knight at higher levels. Crits with fully lvl Detonate ruin. High five for trying something out of the norm btw..👍
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Post by m4rt1n1 on Mar 2, 2017 8:05:18 GMT
Thank you, thank you, should be loads of fun to make this deck work. The potential for nuking is there totally, just gotta find the proper balance. The only reason I don't like Anathema in this deck is obviously Bullseye, but I wonder in which case it is not better than just regular attack. I'm thinking something like double Melt Armor proc could be better without Bullseye, but even if you are up against Frost Armor, then Bullseye rune will buff the attack anyway to deal extra dmg and in that case you are basically only interested in getting the proc on creatures death and Anathema will have easier time achieving that. So the question becomes then, in which case is Bullseye + 3 creature gas cloud worse than for example say Plague all, basic attack one and potentially Weakness one (if not dodged) from Quetz. Which creature has bigger chance to trigger more Melts as we are always looking to Melt armor on a big chunk of opponents board/creatures. Hi, I also have Alchemist.. I have her on LVL 3 so far. Protection 6, Lucidity and Divine shield (i try to get mass charm) 2x recycle 1 HB sneak1 Gemini - its beast for Alchemist deck - when under VS skill, killed, his new form has 2 rounds 100% direct basic dmg and 100% immunity rQT Sneak8 anathema - you can check here how sneak anathema killed whole board :-) best video i have recorded so far www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBBdlhMiqHQtoxicity 9 phantom leage Incinerate FB Gas cloud FB Pyre1 saggitarius plain spirit siren (no cost for anything better so far) I love her I have also fatique HB, fatique mariner, fatique twins (if i remember correctly.. ) but i will try to find out more combinations. Alchemist is my only hero from tourney i dont skip and wait for board meltdown.. few happened. Best vid is above against oceanus (at that time without Lucidity) and then below Against druidess. www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbFnZncifdk
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Post by m4rt1n1 on Mar 2, 2017 8:07:57 GMT
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Post by NFS✪Grandfather on Mar 2, 2017 10:23:08 GMT
Finaly some thread worth of visiting and reading,lets keep it like this Those are videos i was talking about,just pure beauty to see whale hero get rekt by lady Alch. Speaking of Spirit Siren,what would be nive meld for her for Alch deck? Maybe some non magic damage but something which can proc Melt Armor like gas cloud or something like that?
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Post by spizz0 on Mar 2, 2017 10:57:44 GMT
Finaly some thread worth of visiting and reading,lets keep it like this Those are videos i was talking about,just pure beauty to see whale hero get rekt by lady Alch. Speaking of Spirit Siren,what would be nive meld for her for Alch deck? Maybe some non magic damage but something which can proc Melt Armor like gas cloud or something like that? What about tempest? I know it's magic damage but I think that the fact it hits all enemies could be a good point
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Post by NFS✪Grandfather on Mar 2, 2017 11:15:42 GMT
Finaly some thread worth of visiting and reading,lets keep it like this Those are videos i was talking about,just pure beauty to see whale hero get rekt by lady Alch. Speaking of Spirit Siren,what would be nive meld for her for Alch deck? Maybe some non magic damage but something which can proc Melt Armor like gas cloud or something like that? What about tempest? I know it's magic damage but I think that the fact it hits all enemies could be a good point It is nice but im not a fan of to much magic damage in Alch deck,OK i will use 1 or 2 but thats it.I have Flame Brave with melded Incenerate so she will be in use but down side of her is that she is soft as sponge...anyway i prefer other types of Melt Armor trigger like those mentioned above in other post.Also for damage to all i have mighty Yeti I will check what option would be decent to meld having on mid that she will be specific use for that deck only until i get proper replacement.
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Post by spizz0 on Mar 2, 2017 11:23:50 GMT
What about tempest? I know it's magic damage but I think that the fact it hits all enemies could be a good point It is nice but im not a fan of to much magic damage in Alch deck,OK i will use 1 or 2 but thats it.I have Flame Brave with melded Incenerate so she will be in use but down side of her is that she is soft as sponge...anyway i prefer other types of Melt Armor trigger like those mentioned above in other post.Also for damage to all i have mighty Yeti I will check what option would be decent to meld having on mid that she will be specific use for that deck only until i get proper replacement. Start evolving random 5* until you get toxicity and meld it onto SS Joking
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Post by m4rt1n1 on Mar 2, 2017 14:48:52 GMT
It is nice but im not a fan of to much magic damage in Alch deck,OK i will use 1 or 2 but thats it.I have Flame Brave with melded Incenerate so she will be in use but down side of her is that she is soft as sponge...anyway i prefer other types of Melt Armor trigger like those mentioned above in other post.Also for damage to all i have mighty Yeti I will check what option would be decent to meld having on mid that she will be specific use for that deck only until i get proper replacement. Start evolving random 5* until you get toxicity and meld it onto SS Joking I guess i was very lucky with my phantom toxicity and pyre 1 saggi for SS - what about fatique? or FA Cave dragon. - fatique, blaze and rip..
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Post by NFS✪Grandfather on Mar 2, 2017 15:01:18 GMT
Start evolving random 5* until you get toxicity and meld it onto SS Joking I guess i was very lucky with my phantom toxicity and pyre 1 saggi for SS - what about fatique? or FA Cave dragon. - fatique, blaze and rip.. and my thinking about meld is over you made it done now just need meld day to do that.
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Post by m4rt1n1 on Mar 2, 2017 15:04:59 GMT
I guess i was very lucky with my phantom toxicity and pyre 1 saggi for SS - what about fatique? or FA Cave dragon. - fatique, blaze and rip.. and my thinking about meld is over you made it done now just need meld day to do that. I am glad and you can fatique rune, voodoo rune and vitality and you are done I think of melfing Blighthast plague into frostcaller (and her frostbite, voodoo and fatique) or onto cave dragon.. what you think of this?
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Madness, as you know, is a lot like gravity; all it takes is a little push.
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Post by NFS✪Grandfather on Mar 2, 2017 15:14:49 GMT
and my thinking about meld is over you made it done now just need meld day to do that. I am glad and you can fatique rune, voodoo rune and vitality and you are done I think of melfing Blighthast plague into frostcaller (and her frostbite, voodoo and fatique) or onto cave dragon.. what you think of this? Fatigue rune?! You do know that its one of rarest runes to get from gem draw right? So lets not mention those what i cant have I will meld Fatigue on SS and i think thats enough since deck cant be made only of those cards who have skills to proc Melt Armor,there has to be space for other important cards which we mentioned above,so as for me im done with making deck you finished it for me As for Frostcaller well i think you could use better Naga Mistress with melded FA,you have heal and frostbite enough to be decent for Alch and deck to work together.
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Post by m4rt1n1 on Mar 2, 2017 15:32:10 GMT
I am glad and you can fatique rune, voodoo rune and vitality and you are done I think of melfing Blighthast plague into frostcaller (and her frostbite, voodoo and fatique) or onto cave dragon.. what you think of this? Fatigue rune?! You do know that its one of rarest runes to get from gem draw right? So lets not mention those what i cant have I will meld Fatigue on SS and i think thats enough since deck cant be made only of those cards who have skills to proc Melt Armor,there has to be space for other important cards which we mentioned above,so as for me im done with making deck you finished it for me As for Frostcaller well i think you could use better Naga Mistress with melded FA,you have heal and frostbite enough to be decent for Alch and deck to work together. Ah sorry, i didnt mean it. I confused her with plague rune.. i thought i have fatique from glory.. and its plague rune. I am star player so i made it also cheaply .) Hmmm.. naga.. yeah thats interesting. I will try to figure out. And do you wanna friendlist me? to practice? my ingame name: M4rt1N1cz no fancy tags, i just relaxing atm
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Madness, as you know, is a lot like gravity; all it takes is a little push.
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Post by NFS✪Grandfather on Mar 2, 2017 16:24:50 GMT
Ah sorry, i didnt mean it. I confused her with plague rune.. i thought i have fatique from glory.. and its plague rune. I am star player so i made it also cheaply .) Hmmm.. naga.. yeah thats interesting. I will try to figure out. And do you wanna friendlist me? to practice? my ingame name: M4rt1N1cz no fancy tags, i just relaxing atm Thats more like it I have plague rune on Quetzal its lvl 4 or 5 i think doing job Naga with meld is good i was using her in my Warlock deck and its still there at tourney i think,great support card for my range of ranking. Sure i will add you today when i get in game but im not expecting much Alche is still without talents but for deck practice why not
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Post by pypy on Mar 2, 2017 16:45:37 GMT
You MUST, I repeat, MUST have rage gain cards. Injured rune, sac rune, RTQ's, even concealed strike rune if you're playing in THAT sandbox, but your decks success will depend greatly on activating melt Armor to acid splash the board and wipe out your opponent, even with as little as one flame brave. Hope this helps Thank you very much for the ideas. I was considering some sort of rage gain other than rQT, but I didn't have any good combo that I really liked. So I went and tried getting in Sac Twins (with rune) and I was able to clear 15-4 (wanted to do this without Killer Queen) despite their Imm runes healing for 400 when Melt Armor procs for 385. Should be much fun getting her up in levels
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Post by icezaius on Mar 2, 2017 19:03:35 GMT
and my thinking about meld is over you made it done now just need meld day to do that. I am glad and you can fatique rune, voodoo rune and vitality and you are done I think of melfing Blighthast plague into frostcaller (and her frostbite, voodoo and fatique) or onto cave dragon.. what you think of this? I have a plague frost caller and I used it for a while in my Alchemist deck. Worked pretty well, but I ended up deciding I had better options. Very good cheap meld to trigger the melt armor big time and give a little rage control too. I didn't like her rage control with Lucidity, it was a liability. All hail the Alchemist! Great to see her get some love!
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Post by tanisomsford on Mar 4, 2017 20:25:01 GMT
Ah sorry, i didnt mean it. I confused her with plague rune.. i thought i have fatique from glory.. and its plague rune. I am star player so i made it also cheaply .) Hmmm.. naga.. yeah thats interesting. I will try to figure out. And do you wanna friendlist me? to practice? my ingame name: M4rt1N1cz no fancy tags, i just relaxing atm Thats more like it I have plague rune on Quetzal its lvl 4 or 5 i think doing job Naga with meld is good i was using her in my Warlock deck and its still there at tourney i think,great support card for my range of ranking. Sure i will add you today when i get in game but im not expecting much Alche is still without talents but for deck practice why not Funny you mention. I'm working a longer term project on Quetzlcoatl, since I'm one of the lucky few that have a fatigue rune when it WAS a Glory draw, I'm going to try and build a plague, fatigue, AND weakness 12+ and use both plague and fatigue runes on him. This will be a fantastic part of my alchemist deck. My Quetzlcoatl is almost melded, and I already have fatigue 10 ready on a cave dragon with saved Essences for all three skills. I think I've got enough for all three skills to be at 9-11. Hopefully this will pan out with some cool results.
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Post by ZanderX10 on Mar 4, 2017 20:50:24 GMT
Lvling up the skills makes no difference for alchemist. As long as it targets creatures it procs her skill. You could get her full effect with plague 1. It's just like rolling tempest 1 in evo. Tempest 1 has the same chance to freeze creatures as tempest 15. Tempest 15 just generates more rage.
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NFS✪Grandfather
Madness, as you know, is a lot like gravity; all it takes is a little push.
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Post by NFS✪Grandfather on Mar 4, 2017 21:02:30 GMT
Thats more like it I have plague rune on Quetzal its lvl 4 or 5 i think doing job Naga with meld is good i was using her in my Warlock deck and its still there at tourney i think,great support card for my range of ranking. Sure i will add you today when i get in game but im not expecting much Alche is still without talents but for deck practice why not Funny you mention. I'm working a longer term project on Quetzlcoatl, since I'm one of the lucky few that have a fatigue rune when it WAS a Glory draw, I'm going to try and build a plague, fatigue, AND weakness 12+ and use both plague and fatigue runes on him. This will be a fantastic part of my alchemist deck. My Quetzlcoatl is almost melded, and I already have fatigue 10 ready on a cave dragon with saved Essences for all three skills. I think I've got enough for all three skills to be at 9-11. Hopefully this will pan out with some cool results. Quetzal is one of best Melt Armor triggers hes major weakness is no immunity of any kind of basic attack block so its wournable when face hard damage hitters...but with really good basic stats plus some help from other cards he can endure long enough to do the job for Alche. Personaly i think Fatigue meld is perfect for him in way when we talk about specific use for Alche.
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Post by icezaius on Mar 5, 2017 14:15:27 GMT
I don't really like quetz in my alchemist deck. I have one with picking off upgraded to 9, and it just doesn't bring enough to the table I feel. Yeah it triggers immunity, but that's it. The skills themselves are really bad unless they proc a bunch of times. Quetz is never on the board long enough for that to happen cause he's got no defense at all. I liked my plague frost caller better than quetz. She at least can do some rage control and even freeze a few crits now and then. Plus her cost is so cheap and she's so easy to make its a better card for Alchemist IMO. Yeah the runes with quetz might make a big difference, but I still feel like he's gonna get killed before he can do enough to be worthwhile. Let us know how he turns out. Maybe take the runes off him for a few battles and compare for those considering the idea. I have a fatigue rune too, so I could potentially do the same if its worth it.
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Post by tanisomsford on Mar 6, 2017 6:06:10 GMT
I don't really like quetz in my alchemist deck. I have one with picking off upgraded to 9, and it just doesn't bring enough to the table I feel. Yeah it triggers immunity, but that's it. The skills themselves are really bad unless they proc a bunch of times. Quetz is never on the board long enough for that to happen cause he's got no defense at all. I liked my plague frost caller better than quetz. She at least can do some rage control and even freeze a few crits now and then. Plus her cost is so cheap and she's so easy to make its a better card for Alchemist IMO. Yeah the runes with quetz might make a big difference, but I still feel like he's gonna get killed before he can do enough to be worthwhile. Let us know how he turns out. Maybe take the runes off him for a few battles and compare for those considering the idea. I have a fatigue rune too, so I could potentially do the same if its worth it. Not that anyone would waste Omni's on this card, but rebirth 12 is an 80% proc rate...just a thought...
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Post by tanisomsford on Mar 6, 2017 6:19:53 GMT
I don't really like quetz in my alchemist deck. I have one with picking off upgraded to 9, and it just doesn't bring enough to the table I feel. Yeah it triggers immunity, but that's it. The skills themselves are really bad unless they proc a bunch of times. Quetz is never on the board long enough for that to happen cause he's got no defense at all. I liked my plague frost caller better than quetz. She at least can do some rage control and even freeze a few crits now and then. Plus her cost is so cheap and she's so easy to make its a better card for Alchemist IMO. Yeah the runes with quetz might make a big difference, but I still feel like he's gonna get killed before he can do enough to be worthwhile. Let us know how he turns out. Maybe take the runes off him for a few battles and compare for those considering the idea. I have a fatigue rune too, so I could potentially do the same if its worth it. i think picking off9 is a tough skill to work for his skill set. Quetzlcoatl isn't an effective damage card, nor is he a strong attacker really, so picking off doesn't really synergize with it. I mean, plague is technically a damage card, yes, but only 40 damage...his skills emphasis is on weakening opponents. I think Quetzlcoatl should be melded with either i9/FA/rampart(defensive), or fatigue/delay/seal/totem(utility), I'm sure there's some other good ideas out there too., but for the purposes of this thread, I think his best melds are immunity triggers or defense for alchemist.
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Post by pypy on Mar 6, 2017 12:07:49 GMT
What would be the skill if we'd want Quetz to be a sort of a rage-booster? Drop him down, get him killed, rebirth, gain rage while opponent develops on the board. I also use him to trigger opponents hero skill early due to pretty solid attack. I guess i9 would be good enough to protect him from removals and lockdowns, but that might interfere with the idea of him dying if he procs Weakness and then sticks on the board for several turns. Ooh what about Injured 5...that would be interesting, deal 250 to hero to increase attack by 300 and with rune it gets even more rage. But in terms of defense and general utility, i9 should be much better still.
Edit: Bloodrage 8 from Mesmer could potentially serve similar purpose, but reduce 160hp to gain 160atk/round seems too weak or slow
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Post by icezaius on Mar 7, 2017 2:06:26 GMT
Injured quetz could be good
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Post by jeanbeezid on Mar 7, 2017 2:55:48 GMT
While I don't have an alchemist.. I would recommend a melded demonic templar with seal.. I have seen it activate immunity on a large scale with seal and then again with rip and sweeping blow.. His rebirth and waoting time of 2 helps activate seal quickly..
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Post by tanisomsford on Mar 7, 2017 4:42:54 GMT
While I don't have an alchemist.. I would recommend a melded demonic templar with seal.. I have seen it activate immunity on a large scale with seal and then again with rip and sweeping blow.. His rebirth and waoting time of 2 helps activate seal quickly.. This I agree with as well. What I might caution you about though, is that templar, like all sweeper cards, need the rune to handle the over abundance of Dodge in the game now. Many new rares have Dodge, equipment gives Dodge, and all classic builds use some combination of QT's, and HB's, both of which have Dodge. This will neuter your templars effectiveness somewhat from activating immunity throughout his rip skill. However, it will connect about half the time, and will be awesome when it does! Especially when you face really prime targets, like mimirs tree. Block + immunity is double activation from a rip attack.
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