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DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 23, 2015 4:11:45 GMT
Three things are bothering me more than anything else:
(1) Wight and Mantra - Wight is simply the ONLY answer for consistant high damage and it's because of Death Curse, nothing else. Mantra either needs to proc every turn or Death Curse needs a nerfing. EVERYONE uses the same build for Guild Maps and it's boring and unimaginative.
(2) Devil Hunter - Fix Entangle so it actually works. This issue has made DH useless and just further promotes Wight useage.
(3) Damage not counting - When two members fight at the same time, one will have their damage and progress negated. They get rewards/gold/damage ranking but the Guild suffers because no damage is taken from the computer's creatures.
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Post by Pyron on Apr 23, 2015 8:52:16 GMT
1) Wight requires a lot of setup if you want to make a good use of it. I'd say it's not much different from Zora is the right setup when you have leftover critters. The problem with the design of guild map, you only have two ways about it. Deal tons of damage ASAP or try to outlast the damage as much as possible. There is no option for the first. For now, Zora and Wight are the best for the second.
The design of the other heroes don't fit the guild map. You could try Poison Ivy lvl 10 and a bunch of Rager Block and let the critters kill themselves, but probably it's too cute because critters don't deal that much damage.
I would say remove mantra entirely, so we can use summoners with lockdown as well.
It's not like Wight is the problem. The design of this encounter plus the design of the heroes are the problem. You nerf Wight and still won't solve much. Royal Guard and Panda won't become viable all of a sudden. Summoners would be the next option, but you would require heal + crowd control and mantra kinda ruins that for them.
I'd say add more variety for guild maps. Not only make the critter composition unique, but the way the encounter plays out, so the Wight strategy would not be the only right answer to most of them.
2) DH could be an option as well once it works properly. You can use Wight to wither down the critters evenly and after that clear up with DH safely.
3) The only way I guess is to implement a waiting line. Instead of people doing stuff simultaneously, just one player can deal with the map at time. Of course this causes a different problem.
They need to change the way they register damage and try to make it sum up somehow, but I guess they go with the laziest option possible for this.
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Post by thundergod on Apr 23, 2015 9:20:06 GMT
If you nerf Wight and change nothing else, then guild map progress will become painfully slow. There's actually some variety and sometimes requires good thinking to craft a good guild deck. To do well in the hard maps, you need quite a strong deck. Also, there's many, many people who have Wight and still have a hard time constructing a good guild deck.
The voided damage I think is the main problem.
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Post by ÐARҞNESS on Apr 23, 2015 9:49:55 GMT
Nerfing Wight is a horrible idea. Guild maps will take weeks to complete, slower rewards will result, causing a breakdown in the feature. Graveyard is already locked down, you're looking at dealing laughable damage without death curse ticking away the creatures. To put it out there as well, it's not just Wight you need, you can't just farm Wight and instantly get a great GM deck, you need to farm the right creatures and meld them so they last. Takes a fair bit of effort to get the high damage to start with
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Post by Hitmus✪NFS on Apr 23, 2015 10:14:06 GMT
Diana you want make all lives harder:) come on boring or now it gives a lot of shards. you will have own 5* soon thx to our boring wights delivering 1.000.000 damage.
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Post by Hitmus✪NFS on Apr 23, 2015 10:32:50 GMT
BTW about Hunter:
We are very sorry for the inconvenience this has caused. With regard to your concern, we are currently aware of the issue, rest assured that we will have the fix by the next game update. We appreciate your patience and understanding on the matter.
Thank you for your continuous support.]
Sincerely, IGG Customer Support,
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#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
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Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
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DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 23, 2015 14:25:20 GMT
I completely agree that if you nerf Wight, you HAVE to make other Heroes viable or else everything will collapse.
And why? Because Wight is the only option.
It's not so much Wight hate (though Death Curse is OP) as it is a SEVERE lack of options for Guild Maps.
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Post by thundergod on Apr 23, 2015 14:54:02 GMT
I don't think there is a way to try to bring other heroes up to the Wight's level in guild maps without breaking them in every other game mode. Unless you have a nice Thor or Zora deck, then everyone is pretty much stuck with Wight. I actually don't mind, since like I said earlier, it takes some time and planning to get the cards to support the Wight deck. A bunch of ragtag cards isn't going to do well against the medium-hard maps. Fwiw, I've been gathering cards for guild maps since it came out and I still can't come close to putting a dent on the hard maps.
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Post by ÐARҞNESS on Apr 23, 2015 15:25:48 GMT
If you look at it, all heroes serve a purpose, it just happens that Wight's is for guild maps. There's no other way you can add immense damage dealing skills to any of the other heroes without breaking them.
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#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
0
Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 23, 2015 17:01:43 GMT
If you look at it, all heroes serve a purpose, it just happens that Wight's is for guild maps. There's no other way you can add immense damage dealing skills to any of the other heroes without breaking them. Wight's not only good for Guild Maps, it is the most used Hero for high-level players in all modes since Undying stacks on top of itself AND Rebirth making every battle 15 on 10. Add Disposals and you get twice the amount of creatures than your opponent. How is this any kind of balance? No other Hero 4* and under can even compare.
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Post by ÐARҞNESS on Apr 23, 2015 17:10:58 GMT
If you look at it, all heroes serve a purpose, it just happens that Wight's is for guild maps. There's no other way you can add immense damage dealing skills to any of the other heroes without breaking them. Wight's not only good for Guild Maps, it is the most used Hero for high-level players in all modes since Undying stacks on top of itself AND Rebirth making every battle 15 on 10. Add Disposals and you get twice the amount of creatures than your opponent. How is this any kind of balance? No other Hero 4* and under can even compare. That isn't exactly true since all mortii heroes carry the undying talent. I can use Deathmort all the same for maps and arena, and even get the added bonus of the summon
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Post by thundergod on Apr 23, 2015 17:11:04 GMT
If you look at it, all heroes serve a purpose, it just happens that Wight's is for guild maps. There's no other way you can add immense damage dealing skills to any of the other heroes without breaking them. Wight's not only good for Guild Maps, it is the most used Hero for high-level players in all modes since Undying stacks on top of itself AND Rebirth making every battle 15 on 10. Add Disposals and you get twice the amount of creatures than your opponent. How is this any kind of balance? No other Hero 4* and under can even compare. High level Dragon Rider and Berserker decks can definitely compete with Wight.
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#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
0
Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 23, 2015 17:14:58 GMT
Wight's not only good for Guild Maps, it is the most used Hero for high-level players in all modes since Undying stacks on top of itself AND Rebirth making every battle 15 on 10. Add Disposals and you get twice the amount of creatures than your opponent. How is this any kind of balance? No other Hero 4* and under can even compare. That isn't exactly true since all mortii heroes carry the undying talent. I can use Deathmort all the same for maps and arena, and even get the added bonus of the summon Death Curse is so strong though. That's why you see 100 Wights for every 1 Deathmort.
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#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
0
Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 23, 2015 17:22:18 GMT
Wight's not only good for Guild Maps, it is the most used Hero for high-level players in all modes since Undying stacks on top of itself AND Rebirth making every battle 15 on 10. Add Disposals and you get twice the amount of creatures than your opponent. How is this any kind of balance? No other Hero 4* and under can even compare. High level Dragon Rider and Berserker decks can definitely compete with Wight. Not many people have collected the 300+ sshards to get and level those Heroes to Lv.6+ If I had a better clue in the beginning (or a proper Forum like this) I would have planned accordingly and done ALOT of things differently...... *sigh*.....
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Mass confusion >>>
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Post by ÐARҞNESS on Apr 23, 2015 17:28:08 GMT
That isn't exactly true since all mortii heroes carry the undying talent. I can use Deathmort all the same for maps and arena, and even get the added bonus of the summon Death Curse is so strong though. That's why you see 100 Wights for every 1 Deathmort. Depends.. I actually honestly got Wight cuz he looked so cool, and he reminded me of Skulduggery Pleasant, lol
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#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
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Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
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DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 23, 2015 17:30:56 GMT
Death Curse is so strong though. That's why you see 100 Wights for every 1 Deathmort. Depends.. I actually honestly got Wight cuz he looked so cool, and he reminded me of Skulduggery Pleasant, lol LMAO yeah I see that too now! I only got Wight for my Guild. I despise Mortii and otherwise would have waited until I got Devil Hunter, Dragon Rider and Berserker first.
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Mass confusion >>>
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Post by ÐARҞNESS on Apr 23, 2015 17:37:21 GMT
Depends.. I actually honestly got Wight cuz he looked so cool, and he reminded me of Skulduggery Pleasant, lol LMAO yeah I see that too now! I only got Wight for my Guild. I despise Mortii and otherwise would have waited until I got Devil Hunter, Dragon Rider and Berserker first. I love the mortii, basically got pushed into it with all the mortii 5* I got. Getting a few neander ones now to go along with my lvl 5 Berserker which is quite nice
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Post by abisal on Apr 23, 2015 18:01:09 GMT
Well, the Guild Maps were pretty disappointing for me in general. Partly because I was expecting to see some new PC-exclusive cards representing Gods and such with unique abilities, and I only see creatures with 6-7 digits HP.
Ideally, I think the best way to fix this would be for IGG to be less lazy and make each of the fights different, with abilities that make some strategies good and others bad for each map. So, for example: Some of the enemies could lose the "recover all HP every turn" ability and instead have some ability that gives all their creatures Chainstrike and +500 ATK, which would make "Hero Killer" strategies good against them. There could also be Guild Map enemies that have some Token spamming ability (Tokens with huge Health but low Attack), but have creatures with relatively low Health compared to the other Guild Map enemies, instead. This way the Tokens would attract the Death Curses and that would make some other Damage inflicting abilities better.
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#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
0
Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 23, 2015 18:05:32 GMT
LMAO yeah I see that too now! I only got Wight for my Guild. I despise Mortii and otherwise would have waited until I got Devil Hunter, Dragon Rider and Berserker first. I love the mortii, basically got pushed into it with all the mortii 5* I got. Getting a few neander ones now to go along with my lvl 5 Berserker which is quite nice I have more 5* from Mortii than any other faction myself. I'm using Wight as my main deck Hero because Death Curse with Undying 8 and Cripple 8 is just so powerful that my Devil Hunter with Firestorm 9 and Death Cloud 9 still gets out-performed.
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Post by bigstab [NFS] on Apr 23, 2015 18:40:45 GMT
I love the mortii, basically got pushed into it with all the mortii 5* I got. Getting a few neander ones now to go along with my lvl 5 Berserker which is quite nice I have more 5* from Mortii than any other faction myself. I'm using Wight as my main deck Hero because Death Curse with Undying 8 and Cripple 8 is just so powerful that my Devil Hunter with Firestorm 9 and Death Cloud 9 still gets out-performed. I am still using DH for my main deck because I spent the vast majority of my first months evolving me 4 star fean. I only use wight for the guild maps because lets be honest their was no other way for me to get 1.3 mil any other way.
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#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
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Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 23, 2015 18:46:14 GMT
I only use wight for the guild maps because lets be honest their was no other way for me to get 1.3 mil any other way. My original point. Wight is basically the only option for Guild Maps. *yawn!*
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Mass confusion >>>
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Post by ÐARҞNESS on Apr 23, 2015 18:58:23 GMT
I only use wight for the guild maps because lets be honest their was no other way for me to get 1.3 mil any other way. My original point. Wight is basically the only option for Guild Maps. *yawn!* Yes.. but nerfing Wight leaves you with no options for guild maps, lol
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Post by stuuu✪NFS on Apr 23, 2015 19:03:35 GMT
I use Berserker with Spikey 9 sometimes. One nice thing is that it's hard to do less than 50k and hard to do more than 150k so you can hit that sweet spot of getting 500k gold but leaving damage for everyone else.
(assuming the lvl has plenty of magic damage)
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#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
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Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 23, 2015 19:04:24 GMT
My original point. Wight is basically the only option for Guild Maps. *yawn!* Yes.. but nerfing Wight leaves you with no options for guild maps, lol If they just made Mantra proc every turn then that would be fine, and 100x less programming. Nerfing Wight would mean they have to fix Devil Hunter and make other Heroes viable. Too much work for IGG. But let's face it, IGG won't change this because they are Mortii-biased and the p2w crowd would blow their collective heads. The entire game is directed for the p2w to outclass everyone else, so IGG is changing NOTHING.
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Post by thundergod on Apr 23, 2015 19:23:23 GMT
That's just how guild maps work. It is really hard to try to balance guild maps along with the rest of the game. As lazy as IGG is, I'll give them a pass on guild map balance(disregarding bugs). Even if they did nerf Wight for some reason, there would probably be less and worse options before. Also, having Mantra proc every turn would be terrible for everyone's progress and would promote less variety because lockdowns would be nullified.
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Post by Pyron on Apr 24, 2015 1:54:18 GMT
I think he is at the top of most arenas and similar modes because people will level it as high as possible for guild maps and might as well use his undying and hero power at higher level for there.
However, as the game progress, I think people may use other 4* like summoners at lvl 7+ and 5* heroes. The game is way faster in these modes, so his power may not build up the inevitability fast enough. Cripple/Undying isn't always the right combo for these modes, so people will move away from Wight (at least those who can afford to) because changing talents for each mode isn't GP worthy and use other mortii hero with more suitable talent setup.
My Arena is a bit older, so at top 25 I see non-Thor 5* starting to show up and Berserker and Dragon Rider 7+ also competing well with lvl 7+ Wights. A little bit down high leveled Deathmorts and Predators also seem viable. IMO DH/Royal/Panda vs Wight, Wight wins, but times to times I get beaten by these with similar creature composition.
It's just that Gauntlet heroes are a bit slower to upgrade, Wight is mandatory for guild maps, but also good for other modes just by being mortii, so it's the default hero for the most knowledgeable people (also, we have more mortii creatures available). Mortii itself may be a problem instead of Wight. We take out Wight out of equation, people may starting jamming Zoras instead, as it is the only other hero w/ an incremental damage potential that is easily accessible.
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#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
0
Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
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Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 24, 2015 2:56:34 GMT
My Arena bracket has 4 Armageddon, 12 Thors, 27 Wights, 3 Dragon Riders, a Devil Hunter, a Berserker, a Paw Master and a Deathmort in the top 50.
So 27/34 4* Heroes are Wight.
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