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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 14:51:41 GMT
From the board I understand that Queen Artolia is really good.
And I recently got her, but I am a bit puzzled how to get the best out of her.
Which skills to upgrade or what to meld onto her (if I am so lucky to get more than one).
With which hero is she at best? (yes, I understand that Ronin combines beautifully..., but that's not within reach)
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Post by n4k3dm1k3 on Feb 19, 2019 16:22:03 GMT
Have a look through some of the top decks - I don't have her but I imagine you want to pair her with some cards with staying power, so she stays on the field.
According to the wiki, Excalibur scales linearly upto 10, so L5 is 10%. That said, L15 is 50%, so it must scale more rapidly above L10 - but thats going to be out of reach. Similar linear scaling of unwavering. At L6 this is +150atk, with the 1000 cap it doesn't seem worth going too deep on - but a couple of levels are easy to get from the lower level wheel rewards.
Do on death effects would work with unwavering? She is vunerable to retreat - not sure if many players meld against that. I recon she is best played like aqua, just L10 as many as you can get hold of - higher atk and HP seem much less relevant and I'm not sure what lucky evolve will benefit the increased cost.
She is vunerable to scourge, for matching her with good rage control could be important - couple of aquas and a imm10 hanzo should do it, add imm10Para and revMD and board presense + rage control is sorted. The one question is if any healing hampers her attack gain - eg torment rune?
For heroes it looks like she has some stange interactiosn with ward, so druidess could be great with her - search the form for the card name and plently of details pop up.
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Post by revenant on Feb 20, 2019 10:12:04 GMT
From the board I understand that Queen Artolia is really good. And I recently got her, but I am a bit puzzled how to get the best out of her. Which skills to upgrade or what to meld onto her (if I am so lucky to get more than one). With which hero is she at best? (yes, I understand that Ronin combines beautifully..., but that's not within reach) In mine and my guild's experience (of using and melding Artolia), Arty is a good creature but nothing else if you don't meld her right. Then it's a game changer. Don't even bother to upgrade Excalibur, it's a waste of omnis. Unwavering soul is more useful as it's the saving grace for a difficult-to-dispose-of creature. Yet I didn't upgrade it more than 6 or 7, and only with low level omnis, because the power of the card stands 100% in the meld. The perfect skill to meld on Arty is [D]Revive. Every time she dies and revives at 1 HP she will revive one of your creatures. Sometimes you get your whole deck revived in a single turn. Other good melds once you have D-Revive is D-Instakill, if I remember well, for the opposite reason. I don't remember if S-Disposal will work as well, but it has the problem that it won't work once if Arty just dies and doesn't come back for any reason. Maybe more experienced players will have something to add to the thread?
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Post by n4k3dm1k3 on Feb 20, 2019 15:07:21 GMT
Thats good info, I had initially thought on death effects sound really strong - but I wasn't sure they would apply; difference between being resurrected with 1 life or not falling below 1 life. The skill description insinuates it is the later. On this note - as far as I can remember, she cannot be prevented from 'not-dying' by torment; so if on-death effects apply, but she never actually does - should this be considered a bug? I presume excalibur gets pretty strong at L15, when it becomes mini Octavius with a basic attack - if her atk gain was not capped then this skill could get very strong, do people soul shatter rune her to scale excalibur?
EDIT: I found this looking back from an update
Queen Artolia’s Unwavering Spirit will now correctly increase her ATK when upgraded to Lv 15. Updated skill description: When this Creature is destroyed with other friendly Creatures still in play, it instantly revives with 1 HP and increases its ATK by 25. The effect of this increase ends when the Creature’s ATK is at 1,000. This Creature is not immune to the effects of removal from play or Retreat.
That covers the on-death part - but should se also be able to bypass torment?
Also, I presume you cannot lucky evolve on-death effects - so is she worth evolving without attempting a YOLO meld? (i.e. if you only have 1 of her)
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Post by 1501✪NFS on Feb 20, 2019 16:48:37 GMT
Like what mentioned above, vanilla artolia is not so useful, and she could eat up your deck space if she is unmelded. However, she is one of the main creature in my deck because I am using her to handle ronin's rage reduction, bs and dragon lancer. And also to increase waiting time of opponent hand's creatures.
Ronin is everywhere nowadays. Her spirit blade, max hp and rage reduction in every turn is ridiculous. But ronin cant kill artolia, bc after few rounds of spirit blade, artolia will leave with 1 max hp. Whenever anything hits your 1 maxHP artolia, your hero will generate a huge amount of rage, thus you have more chances to activate hero skill next round.
Artolia is one of the highest attack creature, and her attack is 1180 at lv15. This makes her as one of the candidate to absorb bs. With high level haste rune, it will further delay opponent from playing her creatures in hand.
No need to mention, dragon lancer cant harm you if you have artolia played at the left side. And imagine if you have Lv10 Haste rune as well.
In conclusion, unmelded artolia is quite good in handling some conditions, especially in current meta. It depends on what role you want her to be. And ofc Artolia melded with rev, drev or d instakill will be very awesome, good luck melding her @myriadillu
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Post by n4k3dm1k3 on Feb 20, 2019 17:57:44 GMT
Like what mentioned above, vanilla artolia is not so useful, and she could eat up your deck space if she is unmelded. However, she is one of the main creature in my deck because I am using her to handle ronin's rage reduction, bs and dragon lancer. And also to increase waiting time of opponent hand's creatures. Ronin is everywhere nowadays. Her spirit blade, max hp and rage reduction in every turn is ridiculous. But ronin cant kill artolia, bc after few rounds of spirit blade, artolia will leave with 1 max hp. Whenever anything hits your 1 maxHP artolia, your hero will generate a huge amount of rage, thus you have more chances to activate hero skill next round. Artolia is one of the highest attack creature, and her attack is 1180 at lv15. This makes her as one of the candidate to absorb bs. With high level haste rune, it will further delay opponent from playing her creatures in hand. No need to mention, dragon lancer cant harm you if you have artolia played at the left side. And imagine if you have Lv10 Haste rune as well. In conclusion, unmelded artolia is quite good in handling some conditions, especially in current meta. It depends on what role you want her to be. And ofc Artolia melded with rev, drev or d instakill will be very awesome, good luck melding her @myriadillu
I see, so the evolve is going to be necessary to attract BS. A good haste rune is easily aquired.
I'm sure I've seen decks out there with multiple QA, is there scope for running a deck based around multiple QA and scourge?
I think even in 500-100 tourney level decks, she is worth a place to counter DL - who is obviously everywhere.
What happens when she is frozen etc. - does the resurection remove status effects?
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Post by 1501✪NFS on Feb 21, 2019 15:13:02 GMT
Scourge Lv9 has 70% chance to remove artolia from play. It is a pretty good way to get rid of her. Since artolia has unbound, so she cant be frozen (except freezing field by aqua). Resurrection doesn't remove any status effect from her.
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Post by revenant on Feb 22, 2019 8:19:40 GMT
All of a sudden SA is even a better hero now. What do you think for my third tournament hero (oc Ronin and Druidess aren't in discussion) Wraith Hunter or SA (at the appropriate level and talents)? I have both and WH isn't giving me good vibrations, maybe the deck doesn't fit him.
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Post by 1501✪NFS on Feb 23, 2019 10:45:20 GMT
If compared to the same level, i think WH is better than SA. Many people are comparing WH5 to SA9, in that case SA9 or even SA8 is better. WH has some restriction because you need more Neander & Morti to perform better. And nowadays most of the decent deck has two aqua, one paragon, one hanzo or artolia. So you only have 5-6 slots for your Neander and Morti armies. I will prefer SA since SA is more achievable, SA8 & 9 are so common to see now. i can use LP points for better options like runes, lancer, rakshaha etc. And i dont need to have much restrictions to build deck around SA.
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Post by n4k3dm1k3 on Feb 25, 2019 13:17:11 GMT
If compared to the same level, i think WH is better than SA. Many people are comparing WH5 to SA9, in that case SA9 or even SA8 is better. WH has some restriction because you need more Neander & Morti to perform better. And nowadays most of the decent deck has two aqua, one paragon, one hanzo or artolia. So you only have 5-6 slots for your Neander and Morti armies. I will prefer SA since SA is more achievable, SA8 & 9 are so common to see now. i can use LP points for better options like runes, lancer, rakshaha etc. And i dont need to have much restrictions to build deck around SA.
I think in the specific situation of this thread, SA can remove QA, whereas WH does not. Does that make SA(7+) objectively better againt QA than WH(5+)? If so, if this enough to tip the balance towards SA over WH for players at a certain level? (eg. as the third hero choice for a top 500 tourney player)
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Post by valinorean on Feb 25, 2019 20:55:05 GMT
If compared to the same level, i think WH is better than SA. Many people are comparing WH5 to SA9, in that case SA9 or even SA8 is better. WH has some restriction because you need more Neander & Morti to perform better. And nowadays most of the decent deck has two aqua, one paragon, one hanzo or artolia. So you only have 5-6 slots for your Neander and Morti armies. I will prefer SA since SA is more achievable, SA8 & 9 are so common to see now. i can use LP points for better options like runes, lancer, rakshaha etc. And i dont need to have much restrictions to build deck around SA.
I think in the specific situation of this thread, SA can remove QA, whereas WH does not. Does that make SA(7+) objectively better againt QA than WH(5+)? If so, if this enough to tip the balance towards SA over WH for players at a certain level? (eg. as the third hero choice for a top 500 tourney player)
That's not true SA can't remove QA. He has a 60/70% chance. With wraith u have a 100 chance. Today there are many crits with more than 5000 hp. So sa can't even kill them. Wraith is far better!
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Post by n4k3dm1k3 on Feb 26, 2019 2:02:56 GMT
I think in the specific situation of this thread, SA can remove QA, whereas WH does not. Does that make SA(7+) objectively better againt QA than WH(5+)? If so, if this enough to tip the balance towards SA over WH for players at a certain level? (eg. as the third hero choice for a top 500 tourney player)
That's not true SA can't remove QA. He has a 60/70% chance. With wraith u have a 100 chance. Today there are many crits with more than 5000 hp. So sa can't even kill them. Wraith is far better! That's not true SA can't remove QA. He has a 60/70% chance. Those 2 statements are mutually exclusive. 'can' implicitly implies a non-definate outcome, otherwise the correct word would be 'does'. 'can't' would equate to a 0% chance to remove, which you then contradict. Don't worry too much, English is a funny language - especially since most of the world gets taught it incorrectly (i.e. Americanised!)
I am referencing the following, as I don't have the prerequisits to check: deckheroes.freeforums.net/thread/9168/why-wh-shatter-queen-artoliaI remember it being referenced in another thread too, but I am not sure when. Checking through it again, asgarth indicates WH cannot shatter QA when 2 are on the field - so this is much less restrictive than I had remembered. SA is not all bad in those high HP situations, since she will do a lot of damage without shattering if the cards are full HP (often not the case, but its all down RNG and luck) - and get a tonne of rage back at the same time. I was also factoring in the previously stated deck composition requirements for WH in a way - although for tourney it is much easier to pick a deck to suit WH. If you do not have any better heroes, is WH still worth playing if you can only run say 3 neander/motrii crits?
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Post by japoon on Feb 26, 2019 9:13:11 GMT
SA is good for Lvl 8 or 9. Don't go for level 10. Wraith Hunter is good for level 5 or above.
But they cannot comparable with Diodes and Ronin.
Ronin are the best definitely. Every round reducing Opponent Hero rage is broken. Every reducing all enemy Creatures is also broken. Combining 2 skills in a single Hero is Over-power. I don't know why IGG would launch this Hero which totally broke the game.
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Post by 1501✪NFS on Feb 26, 2019 13:35:40 GMT
If compared to the same level, i think WH is better than SA. Many people are comparing WH5 to SA9, in that case SA9 or even SA8 is better. WH has some restriction because you need more Neander & Morti to perform better. And nowadays most of the decent deck has two aqua, one paragon, one hanzo or artolia. So you only have 5-6 slots for your Neander and Morti armies. I will prefer SA since SA is more achievable, SA8 & 9 are so common to see now. i can use LP points for better options like runes, lancer, rakshaha etc. And i dont need to have much restrictions to build deck around SA.
I think in the specific situation of this thread, SA can remove QA, whereas WH does not. Does that make SA(7+) objectively better againt QA than WH(5+)? If so, if this enough to tip the balance towards SA over WH for players at a certain level? (eg. as the third hero choice for a top 500 tourney player)
Yeah a high level SA has higher chance to remove artolia from play. WH is more difficult as you need to control your creature's damage, timing of pursuit activation etc. And WH only can remove artolia if she is alone. Both SA and WH is a good choice in tourney deck, and mostly depends on your deck composition too. You can see SA9 is quite common in top100 tourney (besides ronin and druidess) due to her flexibility in deck building and lower cost.
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Post by 1501✪NFS on Feb 26, 2019 14:01:15 GMT
I think in the specific situation of this thread, SA can remove QA, whereas WH does not. Does that make SA(7+) objectively better againt QA than WH(5+)? If so, if this enough to tip the balance towards SA over WH for players at a certain level? (eg. as the third hero choice for a top 500 tourney player)
That's not true SA can't remove QA. He has a 60/70% chance. With wraith u have a 100 chance. Today there are many crits with more than 5000 hp. So sa can't even kill them. Wraith is far better! If compared by level, overall i think WH is better than SA. And just wanna make it clear, WH can only remove artolia when she is the only card in play. One advantage of SA is the rage generation if she fails to kill enemy crits. Most of the time, your crits in play can do the last hit if SA failed to do so. Same story goes for WH. There is one thing i dont like about WH. He cant activate hero skill if he doesnt have any crit in play.
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Post by n4k3dm1k3 on Feb 27, 2019 16:34:32 GMT
That's not true SA can't remove QA. He has a 60/70% chance. With wraith u have a 100 chance. Today there are many crits with more than 5000 hp. So sa can't even kill them. Wraith is far better! If compared by level, overall i think WH is better than SA. And just wanna make it clear, WH can only remove artolia when she is the only card in play. One advantage of SA is the rage generation if she fails to kill enemy crits. Most of the time, your crits in play can do the last hit if SA failed to do so. Same story goes for WH. There is one thing i dont like about WH. He cant activate hero skill if he doesnt have any crit in play.
Yes, that is a very good point - I had forgotten this.
Just to clarify - WH cannot remove QA if you have QA + any random creature? - if so that was the way I had remembered it originally, although the post I referenced did say this differently. If that is the case then is a big advantage in the SA vs WH argument.
You need to adjust the argument for higher levels - for SA 7,8,9 and WH 5+. At what level does WH trump SA9 in all situations, considering some of the drawbacks we have discussed (from the point of view of someone whom favors SA in some situations)? Opportunity cost is important, so high level WH is expensive in gems and could be repalced by other runes and cards - for this SA has an edge in my mind (unless a better use of ore appears later on)
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Post by 1501✪NFS on Mar 1, 2019 13:24:19 GMT
Yes, that is a very good point - I had forgotten this.
Just to clarify - WH cannot remove QA if you have QA + any random creature? - if so that was the way I had remembered it originally, although the post I referenced did say this differently. If that is the case then is a big advantage in the SA vs WH argument.
Yes, unless WH's deadeye has successfully killed all other crits first before killing artolia. You need to adjust the argument for higher levels - for SA 7,8,9 and WH 5+. At what level does WH trump SA9 in all situations, considering some of the drawbacks we have discussed (from the point of view of someone whom favors SA in some situations)? Opportunity cost is important, so high level WH is expensive in gems and could be repalced by other runes and cards - for this SA has an edge in my mind (unless a better use of ore appears later on)
Idk mate. i only have WH5. But based on the deck i met, WH8 starts to be great. and ofc WH10 is a different story =P It is awesome if you have enough ore to go for WH8 or above, it is hard for regular players though Both hero has their own advantages, it depends which one is working better in your current deck setup.
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Post by n4k3dm1k3 on Mar 1, 2019 15:18:20 GMT
I think in the specific situation of this thread, SA can remove QA, whereas WH does not. Does that make SA(7+) objectively better againt QA than WH(5+)? If so, if this enough to tip the balance towards SA over WH for players at a certain level? (eg. as the third hero choice for a top 500 tourney player)
That's not true SA can't remove QA. He has a 60/70% chance. With wraith u have a 100 chance. Today there are many crits with more than 5000 hp. So sa can't even kill them. Wraith is far better!
So, with a little help from others, can we argree that SA is better than WH against QA?
In general play, I think WH has a higher ceiling - but higher opportunity costs too. In this instance, it feels like putting VS against worlock or lucidity.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 11:46:25 GMT
Back to the topic. I evolved my Queen Artolia and got Frost Armor. Not too bad so far. Until I can meld her.
The other day I played against a QA with instakill, that was killing. I can confirm that that worked too well.
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Post by japoon on Apr 15, 2019 2:42:49 GMT
Back to the topic. I evolved my Queen Artolia and got Frost Armor. Not too bad so far. Until I can meld her. The other day I played against a QA with instakill, that was killing. I can confirm that that worked too well. She is undead whenever there is other creature on the field. What is the use of Frost Armor? Mass Heal is better
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Post by fuggingene on Aug 12, 2019 15:54:13 GMT
I have her with Revive. I really want another. Then I have to choose whether to put Detonate or (D)Instakill on her. I would think Detonate would be better to get rid of those I10 Paragons.
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Post by revenant on Aug 13, 2019 9:10:46 GMT
Most of the people I see around that have a second arty, have [D]instakill as a skill. According to the popularity: [D]rev (>> rev) > [D]instakill >> anything else.
D-rev just rules.
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Post by fuggingene on Aug 13, 2019 10:07:31 GMT
yes. I regret not putting [d]revive on her. I didn't even know that worked like that. If I ever get more meld cards, then I'd do that. The problem I have putting [d]instakill on her, is that I find I'm playing more and more decks where everything has I10 on it. I figure having detonate, she'll just keep piling on the damage.
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Post by SeraphicD on Aug 13, 2019 13:38:45 GMT
yes. I regret not putting [d]revive on her. I didn't even know that worked like that. If I ever get more meld cards, then I'd do that. The problem I have putting [d]instakill on her, is that I find I'm playing more and more decks where everything has I10 on it. I figure having detonate, she'll just keep piling on the damage. With the Revive Rune, she can possibly bring back the entire team in a round. DL can trigger her skill four times and potentially bring back 8 cards 😅 Ive a (d)revive, hoping to meld revive for my second Art and pair them up.
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Post by 1501✪NFS on Aug 13, 2019 14:21:44 GMT
yes. I regret not putting [d]revive on her. I didn't even know that worked like that. If I ever get more meld cards, then I'd do that. The problem I have putting [d]instakill on her, is that I find I'm playing more and more decks where everything has I10 on it. I figure having detonate, she'll just keep piling on the damage. true, d rev is the game changer. But detonate is magic damage..so it cant affect those crits with immunity. not so decent imo
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Post by n4k3dm1k3 on Aug 13, 2019 14:44:33 GMT
yes. I regret not putting [d]revive on her. I didn't even know that worked like that. If I ever get more meld cards, then I'd do that. The problem I have putting [d]instakill on her, is that I find I'm playing more and more decks where everything has I10 on it. I figure having detonate, she'll just keep piling on the damage. with [d] insta I suspect she is very effective against other QAs
i10 meta is very in and out - and lots of things bypass immunity altogether these days.
If you have the fodder, [d]rev then [d]insta paired is very strong. If you have 1, then the choice is based on how strong you revive crew already is - but remember she will revive your team during the enemy turn, so they can act next round (unless they insta-die that is!)
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Post by 1501✪NFS on Aug 13, 2019 15:15:31 GMT
FYI [d]instakill or instakill is only effective against cloned QA. anyway both [d] rev & [d] insta QA are top and endgame melds. =) I recorded a video last time, was playing against another type of hero killing concept, featuring [d] voodoo artolia together with cinder spirit, and i think it is very effective in hero killing. Here is the link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBUlSTTSTt8&t=5s
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Post by valinorean on Aug 13, 2019 18:53:49 GMT
FYI [d]instakill or instakill is only effective against cloned QA. anyway both [d] rev & [d] insta QA are top and endgame melds. =) I recorded a video last time, was playing against another type of hero killing concept, featuring [d] voodoo artolia together with cinder spirit, and i think it is very effective in hero killing. Here is the link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBUlSTTSTt8&t=5sVery insteresting video. Vodoo Artolia gives a lot of rage control. But it's slow doing the thing.
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fuggingene
Nightraider
Posts: 72
Level: 103
Guild: Guild of Happy Fun
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Nov 23, 2020 10:59:02 GMT
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fuggingene
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Guild of Happy Fun
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Post by fuggingene on Aug 14, 2019 10:49:16 GMT
yes. I regret not putting [d]revive on her. I didn't even know that worked like that. If I ever get more meld cards, then I'd do that. The problem I have putting [d]instakill on her, is that I find I'm playing more and more decks where everything has I10 on it. I figure having detonate, she'll just keep piling on the damage. true, d rev is the game changer. But detonate is magic damage..so it cant affect those crits with immunity. not so decent imo crap. i thought it was direct damage.
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