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Post by voldrox [BK] on Dec 3, 2015 4:32:24 GMT
It could only stay 1 extra turn max. It was about as strong as it is now. I think Taskmistress is stronger than Captivator and Oceanus. Sending 4 back to hand pretty much guarantees they miss a draw. Lol! On that note, I noticed no one has really even mentioned Hydra :oP Hydra is meh, similar to Blademaster and Thor.
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Post by deadsun on Dec 3, 2015 4:47:20 GMT
No one is really mentioning Hydra, Light's Hand etc because you can't really expect to ever get them so they are a moot point. The base 8 (Capt, OL, Warlock, Judgement, Arma, Thor, Oceanus, and Alch) are all acquirable by pretty much anyone given enough time. The rest are not. And as the original post was asking what heroes to work towards purchasing, they are irrelevant.
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Post by tanisomsford on Dec 3, 2015 4:47:51 GMT
Lol! On that note, I noticed no one has really even mentioned Hydra :oP Hydra is meh, similar to Blademaster and Thor. IKR! The funniest part was the hydra big reveal. New five star hero, Hydra! They even ran a sky arena with Hydra as the big showcase prize. LMAO!
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Post by orgoth on Dec 3, 2015 4:48:38 GMT
Hyrda was more of a ooo flashy hero than a useful one, staatus effect maybe good if it wernet randomized as much since it's hard to prep his creatures second he is practically unobtainable for.most players since he is one of the newer heroes (odin, lights hand, task mistress fall into this)
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Post by tanisomsford on Dec 3, 2015 4:49:29 GMT
No one is really mentioning Hydra, Light's Hand etc because you can't really expect to ever get them so they are a moot point. The base 8 (Capt, OL, Warlock, Judgement, Arma, Thor, Oceanus, and Alch) are all acquirable by pretty much anyone given enough time. The rest are not. You mean base 9. Blademaster, I know he's ballz. But still deserves an honorable mention. ;o)
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Post by deadsun on Dec 3, 2015 4:50:35 GMT
Close enough >.< I'm tired.
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Post by voldrox [BK] on Dec 3, 2015 5:02:30 GMT
Hydra is meh, similar to Blademaster and Thor. IKR! The funniest part was the hydra big reveal. New five star hero, Hydra! They even ran a sky arena with Hydra as the big showcase prize. LMAO! Lol yeah some people even fell for it in sky arena. When he was released he did sound good though. Honestly Hero abilities are best judged after seeing them in action. Yesterday some p2w attacked me with Hydra in tournament, what I thought was really funny is that he was attacking my Warlock deck with it.
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Post by ℜ★God on Dec 4, 2015 5:43:26 GMT
It could only stay 1 extra turn max. It was about as strong as it is now. I think Taskmistress is stronger than Captivator and Oceanus. Sending 4 back to hand pretty much guarantees they miss a draw. Lol! On that note, I noticed no one has really even mentioned Hydra :oP Hydra is basically a way better version of Thor.
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Post by drakkan on Dec 11, 2015 11:53:48 GMT
(dont feel like opening new thread)
What's "Ice Armor" that is stated on Alchemist skill? Am I missing something? Dont tell me its "Frost Armor"?
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Post by Sinister22✪NFS on Dec 11, 2015 12:13:21 GMT
(dont feel like opening new thread) What's "Ice Armor" that is stated on Alchemist skill? Am I missing something? Dont tell me its "Frost Armor"? Yes it is Frost armor... The translation sometimes is inconsistent.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2015 12:13:41 GMT
(dont feel like opening new thread) What's "Ice Armor" that is stated on Alchemist skill? Am I missing something? Dont tell me its "Frost Armor"? It's Frost armor. On the battleblow rune description a similar mistake exists, they call it Ice Shield on the rune.
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Post by drakkan on Dec 11, 2015 12:26:11 GMT
But wtf is with their wording. I mean why is "Ice Armor" = "Frost Armor" .. it could be "Ice Coffin" .. In Magic the Gathering when you read a card you know exactly what it does .. this is so childish.. ---------- Anyway, 2nd question .. as I dont like making conclusions based on their wording: When a creature affected by Melt Armor activates its "Ice Armor" .. does only that creature receive XXX dmg or all creatues with Melt Armor get dmg? ---------- 3rd question - someone said Alchemist will be next meta.. but why isnt he 'next meta' now? What are they waiting? Lots of players have him while only few uses him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2015 13:15:37 GMT
That's because Alchemist is s*** lol I have yet to lose with one of my strong decks in tourney to an Alchemist deck. By design the deck you need to build often involves magic - wipeout with Spiky Bits. drakkan I will try to pm you a pic of my defence in tourney against a Alchemist user. Don't want to embarrace the person by posting here.
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Post by voldrox [BK] on Dec 11, 2015 14:19:32 GMT
Alchemist deck needs to be very specific I think. It will not work as easily as in the case of Oceanus. Trying to put a lot of magic creatures will result in the lack of immunity and frost armor, I am guessing building an Alchemist deck is harder than building an Armageddon / Overlord deck.
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Post by deadsun on Dec 11, 2015 16:59:12 GMT
Alchemist is an offensive hero not a defensive. If someone is relying on it for their tournament defense, they're doing it wrong.
You use alchemist when you see a deck full of frost armor/immunity and, if built right, you can tear it to shreds. And if anyone sends a magic heavy deck against a spiky bits deck, they're probably just stupid.
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Post by Absoul on Dec 11, 2015 20:29:01 GMT
Alchemist is an offensive hero not a defensive. If someone is relying on it for their tournament defense, they're doing it wrong. You use alchemist when you see a deck full of frost armor/immunity and, if built right, you can tear it to shreds. And if anyone sends a magic heavy deck against a spiky bits deck, they're probably just stupid. Check out Mikhals Alchemist Tournament deck. Very good on defense.
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Post by corvin on Dec 11, 2015 21:41:10 GMT
Alchemist is an offensive hero not a defensive. If someone is relying on it for their tournament defense, they're doing it wrong. You use alchemist when you see a deck full of frost armor/immunity and, if built right, you can tear it to shreds. And if anyone sends a magic heavy deck against a spiky bits deck, they're probably just stupid. Check out Mikhals Alchemist Tournament deck. Very good on defense. Because of strong cards or good synergy with the hero?
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Post by ℜ★God on Dec 11, 2015 23:17:29 GMT
Check out Mikhals Alchemist Tournament deck. Very good on defense. Because of strong cards or good synergy with the hero? Both. He has 2 Snow Harlots and 2 Abaddons, and his Alchemist is level 5. If those 4 magic users hit a creature with Immunity, that Immunity creature will take 2000 damage. If it has Frost Armor too, then that's another 500 damage.
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Post by deadsun on Dec 12, 2015 1:23:20 GMT
Because of strong cards or good synergy with the hero? Both. He has 2 Snow Harlots and 2 Abaddons, and his Alchemist is level 5. If those 4 magic users hit a creature with Immunity, that Immunity creature will take 2000 damage. If it has Frost Armor too, then that's another 500 damage. So you just run unbound creatures against it instead of immunity and his alchemist does exactly banana. And let's be honest, any deck with 2 Snow Harlots is going to be difficult for 95% of decks to deal with. Especially since hes got one of those Harlots melded with Imm10. That is not a deck you can really compare with as almost no one has, or ever will have, access to what he does.
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Post by ℜ★God on Dec 12, 2015 1:35:19 GMT
Both. He has 2 Snow Harlots and 2 Abaddons, and his Alchemist is level 5. If those 4 magic users hit a creature with Immunity, that Immunity creature will take 2000 damage. If it has Frost Armor too, then that's another 500 damage. So you just run unbound creatures against instead of immunity and his alchemist does exactly banana. I wouldn't say that she does "exactly banana".. There are still 5 other abilities that can trigger her Melt Armor.
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Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on Dec 12, 2015 2:51:52 GMT
So you just run unbound creatures against instead of immunity and his alchemist does exactly banana. Easier said than done. If most people took out their revives, recycle HBs and retreat QTs their decks would drop off a bit.
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Post by voldrox [BK] on Dec 12, 2015 2:57:22 GMT
I think Alchemist is underrated. You could make a Neander deck with her with the Nidhoggs delays triggering melt armor damage. Everyone has stoneskin, immunity and frost armor in their deck. And you would be hurting your deck if you are trying to defend by using Dodge or unbound creatures, you will be thrown off several ranks in the tournament just because all the other players will attack you.
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Post by deadsun on Dec 12, 2015 4:08:19 GMT
I am specifically referring to Alchemist on defense, not offense. I think Alchemist is awesome on offense, but when its on defense, you get to tailor your deck to beat it.
Now, Unbound creatures (especially like Sekhmet who also have life Sap) make decent recycle holders. Not the best, but good, so an Unbound deck against an Alchemist deck could work. In which case you could tailor it to run a few melded Unbound Panther Chiefs, Unbound Twins (who only have Stoneskin that can trigger which is highly unlikely and even Mikhal's deck only has one retreat that could proc it), sac8 Pit Dragon (or sac8 Anathema in a pinch), toss in a Paragon, and you got the core to a pretty decent Unbound deck to combat a magic based alchemist on defense. Add in a Sharp Armor hero (say Capt) and once your lose a couple neanders, they likely have most of heir casters out now and there's a good chance you could wipe their board without ever taking dmg from the melt armor proc. You would obviously need to tailor it depending on what exactly is in the Alchemist deck, but you can almost completely neauter all but the mediocre dmg part of her hero ability if you know shes waiting for you.
Even a single Mythril Drone can hamper an Alchemist deck trying to force Immunity procs to get dmg out of its hero ability, and its own Immunity almost never comes into play thanks to its Spellbinder. And, like all the other cards I mentioned, its farmable now.
are you guaranteed to win? Of course not. But her ability is very reliant upon what your opponent is running (similar to spiky bits), and is far less useful when the opponent can plan ahead and see what she is running with on defense. Obviously she will prob still wipe anyone who isn't paying attention and failing to tailor their deck to what they are up against, but that's the fault of the attacker then.
Out of all of that, the only thing I am not certain is whether spiky bits/sharp armor counts as reflect for her ability. I suspect is does not since the human hero skill that gives everything frost armor (Zero Kelvin) does not count as frost armor for triggers like the Bullseye rune even though it specifically says it gives them 'frost armor', so I assume that spiky/sharp counts as its own ability in the same way. Though, if someone has video evidence otherwise, I will be happy to remove that part of my suggestion.
To clarify once more if anyone reads this far, I am not saying shes bad, or even just okay. I think shes a great hero, and super great offensively. I just feel she loses a lot of her greatness when you stick her on defense.
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Post by ℜ★God on Dec 12, 2015 8:01:45 GMT
I am specifically referring to Alchemist on defense, not offense. I think Alchemist is awesome on offense, but when its on defense, you get to tailor your deck to beat it. Now, Unbound creatures (especially like Sekhmet who also have life Sap) make decent recycle holders. Not the best, but good, so an Unbound deck against an Alchemist deck could work. In which case you could tailor it to run a few melded Unbound Panther Chiefs, Unbound Twins (who only have Stoneskin that can trigger which is highly unlikely and even Mikhal's deck only has one retreat that could proc it), sac8 Pit Dragon (or sac8 Anathema in a pinch), toss in a Paragon, and you got the core to a pretty decent Unbound deck to combat a magic based alchemist on defense. Add in a Sharp Armor hero (say Capt) and once your lose a couple neanders, they likely have most of heir casters out now and there's a good chance you could wipe their board without ever taking dmg from the melt armor proc. You would obviously need to tailor it depending on what exactly is in the Alchemist deck, but you can almost completely neauter all but the mediocre dmg part of her hero ability if you know shes waiting for you. Even a single Mythril Drone can hamper an Alchemist deck trying to force Immunity procs to get dmg out of its hero ability, and its own Immunity almost never comes into play thanks to its Spellbinder. And, like all the other cards I mentioned, its farmable now. are you guaranteed to win? Of course not. But her ability is very reliant upon what your opponent is running (similar to spiky bits), and is far less useful when the opponent can plan ahead and see what she is running with on defense. Obviously she will prob still wipe anyone who isn't paying attention and failing to tailor their deck to what they are up against, but that's the fault of the attacker then. Out of all of that, the only thing I am not certain is whether spiky bits/sharp armor counts as reflect for her ability. I suspect is does not since the human hero skill that gives everything frost armor (Zero Kelvin) does not count as frost armor for triggers like the Bullseye rune even though it specifically says it gives them 'frost armor', so I assume that spiky/sharp counts as its own ability in the same way. Though, if someone has video evidence otherwise, I will be happy to remove that part of my suggestion. To clarify once more if anyone reads this far, I am not saying shes bad, or even just okay. I think shes a great hero, and super great offensively. I just feel she loses a lot of her greatness when you stick her on defense. I highly doubt there is anyone willing to spend materials, essences, and dupes on melding Unbound onto their creatures just to counter Alchemist. As far as Spellbinder goes, that only prevents magic attacks. Delays, Retreats, Instakills, Blaze, and Gas Cloud will still trigger just fine. And then you still have to consider Frost Armor, Stoneskin, Block, Reflect, and Maji Shield. So, what? Are you going to make a deck that has none of those? That deck will not be affected by Melt Armor, sure. But it will be so terrible that it wouldn't win anyways. Alchemist is incredibly difficult to counter, so she makes a great defense hero.
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Post by deadsun on Dec 12, 2015 10:00:18 GMT
I am specifically referring to Alchemist on defense, not offense. I think Alchemist is awesome on offense, but when its on defense, you get to tailor your deck to beat it. Now... I highly doubt there is anyone willing to spend materials, essences, and dupes on melding Unbound onto their creatures just to counter Alchemist. As far as Spellbinder goes, that only prevents magic attacks. Delays, Retreats, Instakills, Blaze, and Gas Cloud will still trigger just fine. And then you still have to consider Frost Armor, Stoneskin, Block, Reflect, and Maji Shield. So, what? Are you going to make a deck that has none of those? That deck will not be affected by Melt Armor, sure. But it will be so terrible that it wouldn't win anyways. Alchemist is incredibly difficult to counter, so she makes a great defense hero. After a certain point, if you AREN'T developing card and meld combos to counter what you are coming up against, then you aren't going to succeed. That is basically what you have to do at the high lvls. Anyway, Stoneskin doesn't proc often at all. The effects it prevents are not prevalent and are single target effects, meaning they aren't even likely to hit the creature with Stoneskin even if there is one. Especially if you are only running one or two like I mentioned. Second, Unbound Panther Chief or Twins aren't that bad and super easy to farm. The fact that a big weakness of theirs is being locked down with freeze or delay, unbound is a very good option for them when there's better options to put Immunity on. And since Twins comes with its own defense that doesn't count as dodge, and both Sekhmet and Panther Chief have life sap, Frost armor isn't as necessary. Then you have Sac8 Pit Dragon which, once again, has no defense that triggers Alchemist, and is a very good card/meld combo that most high lvl players run a copy of. Or you could run a Life Sap meld Pit Dragon if you want to avoid the sac8 which is good too being super hard to kill and not able to be locked down while bypassing defensive skills and guaranteeing Life Sap keeping it alive (and of course it has rebirth). Add in a Nidhogg or two, maybe a life sap Anathema (also a good all around card and meld combo) and you've got a deck that is very difficult to kill without needing those defensive skills. Run Captivator and it gets even harder since her skill ignores defenses like immunity, buying free turns of no lockdown (though most of your creatures will be immune to things like delay and freeze already) and extra dmg from her skill and opponents own creatures.. So, yes, you could run a deck with limited defensive skills that could work, just like how people remove magic creatures when they go up against a Spiky Bits deck, and that's a skill that only triggers a limited number of times as opposed to the whole fight like a hero skill can. As for Mythril Drone, I was specifically using it as an example in reference to the person bringing up the 2x Snow Harlot and 2x Abaddon, as he locks them both down. And even if you want to assume triggers from one of those other sources, some being much rarer and unlikely to target the Drone than others (instakill for example not being common these days and only a single target) that is still only one creature in your deck than can proc the Melt Armor skill from things like Delay, while the rest are immune to it and get to ignore the melt armor.
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Post by ℜ★God on Dec 12, 2015 12:09:05 GMT
I highly doubt there is anyone willing to spend materials, essences, and dupes on melding Unbound onto their creatures just to counter Alchemist. As far as Spellbinder goes, that only prevents magic attacks. Delays, Retreats, Instakills, Blaze, and Gas Cloud will still trigger just fine. And then you still have to consider Frost Armor, Stoneskin, Block, Reflect, and Maji Shield. So, what? Are you going to make a deck that has none of those? That deck will not be affected by Melt Armor, sure. But it will be so terrible that it wouldn't win anyways. Alchemist is incredibly difficult to counter, so she makes a great defense hero. After a certain point, if you AREN'T developing card and meld combos to counter what you are coming up against, then you aren't going to succeed. That is basically what you have to do at the high lvls. Anyway, Stoneskin doesn't proc often at all. The effects it prevents are not prevalent and are single target effects, meaning they aren't even likely to hit the creature with Stoneskin even if there is one. Especially if you are only running one or two like I mentioned. Second, Unbound Panther Chief or Twins aren't that bad and super easy to farm. The fact that a big weakness of theirs is being locked down with freeze or delay, unbound is a very good option for them when there's better options to put Immunity on. And since Twins comes with its own defense that doesn't count as dodge, and both Sekhmet and Panther Chief have life sap, Frost armor isn't as necessary. Then you have Sac8 Pit Dragon which, once again, has no defense that triggers Alchemist, and is a very good card/meld combo that most high lvl players run a copy of. Or you could run a Life Sap meld Pit Dragon if you want to avoid the sac8 which is good too being super hard to kill and not able to be locked down while bypassing defensive skills and guaranteeing Life Sap keeping it alive (and of course it has rebirth). Add in a Nidhogg or two, maybe a life sap Anathema (also a good all around card and meld combo) and you've got a deck that is very difficult to kill without needing those defensive skills. Run Captivator and it gets even harder since her skill ignores defenses like immunity, buying free turns of no lockdown (though most of your creatures will be immune to things like delay and freeze already) and extra dmg from her skill and opponents own creatures.. So, yes, you could run a deck with limited defensive skills that could work, just like how people remove magic creatures when they go up against a Spiky Bits deck, and that's a skill that only triggers a limited number of times as opposed to the whole fight like a hero skill can. As for Mythril Drone, I was specifically using it as an example in reference to the person bringing up the 2x Snow Harlot and 2x Abaddon, as he locks them both down. And even if you want to assume triggers from one of those other sources, some being much rarer and unlikely to target the Drone than others (instakill for example not being common these days and only a single target) that is still only one creature in your deck than can proc the Melt Armor skill from things like Delay, while the rest are immune to it and get to ignore the melt armor. You're highly over glamorizing an Unbound Panther Chief and Unbound Twins.. Without Frost Armor (or Sac 8 on your Twins), they would both get one-shotted by most of my creatures. The Sekhmet would be rendered useless if I just threw a Pontiff in front of him. A Life Sap Anathema can easily be locked down by my Sea Wizard, Fae Firstborn, or Paragon. The only thing that would give me a little bit of trouble is the Sac 8 Pit Dragon. Now, if these creatures don't work against my deck, then they certainly won't work against someone who is level 95+.
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Post by ℳarty on Dec 12, 2015 13:17:27 GMT
Revive Hanuman for president.
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Post by voldrox [BK] on Dec 12, 2015 13:39:12 GMT
Revive Hanuman for president. LOL! I was looking forward to you saying something about Alchemist and here you go. Nah I vote for hobble Nidhogg.
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Post by ℳarty on Dec 12, 2015 14:56:23 GMT
Revive Hanuman for president. LOL! I was looking forward to you saying something about Alchemist and here you go. Nah I vote for hobble Nidhogg. Hehe lol, honestly, I don't have an opinion on Alchemist yet. I did fight her 2-3 in Gauntlet, and I wasn't impressed but what is a deck without his runes She required high lvl while Oceanus is effective at lvl 1, the choice was easy for me. Having a good heroes right away without much investment in pretty sweet for the f2p players.
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Post by deadsun on Dec 12, 2015 18:23:04 GMT
After a certain point, if you AREN'T developing card and meld combos to counter what you are coming up against, then you aren't going to succeed. That is basically what you have to do at the high lvls. Anyway,.... You're highly over glamorizing an Unbound Panther Chief and Unbound Twins.. Without Frost Armor (or Sac 8 on your Twins), they would both get one-shotted by most of my creatures. The Sekhmet would be rendered useless if I just threw a Pontiff in front of him. A Life Sap Anathema can easily be locked down by my Sea Wizard, Fae Firstborn, or Paragon. The only thing that would give me a little bit of trouble is the Sac 8 Pit Dragon. Now, if these creatures don't work against my deck, then they certainly won't work against someone who is level 95+. You don't get to choose what you throw in front of things in Tournament/Arena, and lockdowns are not guaranteed and with only one creature even being succeptable to them, your Sea Wizard, Fae Firstborn, and Paragons lockdowns will hit almost nothing . Since you want to talk hypotheticals, 1. they are much less likely to get one shot thanks to protection and a vitality rune, and 2. one bad roll and a bullseye runed Anathema can nearly one shot your creatures with a defense skill like frost armor or dodge (something that doesn't work against the setup I provided). And since nothing uses their lockdown skills when under crazed sorrow, that is even more likely.
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