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Post by nuke on Jan 2, 2018 15:52:13 GMT
A recent change to iOS terms of service for apps on the App Store makes it compulsory for games with lootbox features (i.e. things like DH boosters) to show iOS users the percentage chances of getting the featured prize before the customer buys it. We all know the percentages IGG show us on some things (like getting orange equipment) are pure lies, so I am very interested to see if they will follow this compulsory guideline or not, and also what numbers they will show.
Since I am fully expecting IGG to try and ignore this new developer guideline, I am asking the iOS members of the DH community on this forum to follow up keenly on this issue the next time a DH update is provided on the App Store. If they fail to expose the probabilities, or if you can't figure out where to access that information, please contact IGG support and ask where it is. If they are unwilling to reveal the probabilities, please report them to Apple for us. This is vital information that spending players should have to stop IGG from treating us like fools.
If, on the other hand, IGG make this information available, please update this thread so that other members of the forum can access it and together we can investigate if the numbers make sense.
Thank you in advance.
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Post by kenobi on Jan 3, 2018 4:43:36 GMT
I was hopeful about this new law however It will not change anythjng. The law applies only to randomized based real money purchases not in game currency spending. We already know how many gems we are getting before purchasing.
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Post by nuke on Jan 3, 2018 5:09:50 GMT
I was hopeful about this new law however It will not change anythjng. The law applies only to randomized based real money purchases not in game currency spending. We already know how many gems we are getting before purchasing. If that were true, this guideline would have no meaning whatsoever. Not only do very few games use real money for the purchase of lootboxes, the few that do would obviously simply migrate to selling lootboxes for Shmeckles or whatever. That's a loophole the size of a country. Only a fool would not see it, and I don't believe the people employed at Apple are fools.
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Post by kenobi on Jan 3, 2018 12:18:16 GMT
I was hopeful about this new law however It will not change anythjng. The law applies only to randomized based real money purchases not in game currency spending. We already know how many gems we are getting before purchasing. If that were true, this guideline would have no meaning whatsoever. Not only do very few games use real money for the purchase of lootboxes, the few that do would obviously simply migrate to selling lootboxes for Shmeckles or whatever. That's a loophole the size of a country. Only a fool would not see it, and I don't believe the people employed at Apple are fools. go read the new law pleAse
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Post by nuke on Jan 3, 2018 13:27:38 GMT
If that were true, this guideline would have no meaning whatsoever. Not only do very few games use real money for the purchase of lootboxes, the few that do would obviously simply migrate to selling lootboxes for Shmeckles or whatever. That's a loophole the size of a country. Only a fool would not see it, and I don't believe the people employed at Apple are fools. go read the new law pleAse I have. Nowhere did they mention "real money" purchases. Just purchases. You added that bit on your own. Now stop being a smartass telling me to go read about the topic I created a thread on. 3.1.1 In-App Purchase, specifically: "Apps offering “loot boxes” or other mechanisms that provide randomized virtual items for purchase must disclose the odds of receiving each type of item to customers prior to purchase."
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Post by nuke on Jan 3, 2018 13:40:12 GMT
If that were true, this guideline would have no meaning whatsoever. Not only do very few games use real money for the purchase of lootboxes, the few that do would obviously simply migrate to selling lootboxes for Shmeckles or whatever. That's a loophole the size of a country. Only a fool would not see it, and I don't believe the people employed at Apple are fools. go read the new law pleAse Here's a link to help you out developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#in-app-purchase
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Post by nuke on Jan 3, 2018 13:43:48 GMT
Do note however that I haven't seen examples of them enforcing this new guideline. That's why I don't want to claim you're wrong, only that it would be a major loophole that they most likely foresaw.
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Post by Doomkin✪NFS on Jan 3, 2018 14:48:45 GMT
A change as massive as you're expecting won't come in full swing right away. This is merely a step in the right direction - but not quite as much of a change that most players would like to see. The intent is purely for direct money-to-gamble purchases. Use of in game currencies are not included as previously stated.
I think there should be something along the lines of Chinas law of disclosure to chances. IGG would be forced to at least disclose the statistic chance for draws instead of it being completely black box.
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Post by nuke on Jan 3, 2018 15:13:52 GMT
A change as massive as you're expecting won't come in full swing right away. This is merely a step in the right direction - but not quite as much of a change that most players would like to see. The intent is purely for direct money-to-gamble purchases. Use of in game currencies are not included as previously stated. I think there should be something along the lines of Chinas law of disclosure to chances. IGG would be forced to at least disclose the statistic chance for draws instead of it being completely black box. Are you sure? Because if you're right, a lot of the games I've seen mentioned as potentially being targeted in the various articles covering this would already be exempt, because they use in-game currency.
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Post by nuke on Jan 3, 2018 15:18:59 GMT
If you're right, then this is pretty useless. No, completely useless. It's gonna be really easy to get around this. Assuming you're right and "purchase" only covers exchange of real-world money for stuff.
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Post by Doomkin✪NFS on Jan 3, 2018 17:34:34 GMT
If you're right, then this is pretty useless. No, completely useless. It's gonna be really easy to get around this. Assuming you're right and "purchase" only covers exchange of real-world money for stuff. It's based on other legal conversations I've read coming from actual lawyers (or people claiming to be actual lawyers). Everyone should keep in mind its an Apple rule - so if anything Apple would just take the app down from their store until this rule is met. This also means it is up to Apple to interpret the rule. The issue lies in that the lootboxes we have (card packs) are not solely attainable from use of money. Any player knows it practically is since we all know how many gems we get for free but technically you can purchase the lootboxes without ever spending a dime. This makes it grey and less of a hot target for enforcing the new rule. Could it be enforced immediately? Yes. Will it? More than likely not. Apple will more than likely crack down on any app that has more direct-purchase loot boxes similar to Overwatch (just using an example I know, though its not an app) where, sure, you get the boxes from leveling/etc.. but the only PURCHASE of these lootboxes is directly with money.
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Post by nuke on Jan 3, 2018 18:41:44 GMT
If you're right, then this is pretty useless. No, completely useless. It's gonna be really easy to get around this. Assuming you're right and "purchase" only covers exchange of real-world money for stuff. It's based on other legal conversations I've read coming from actual lawyers (or people claiming to be actual lawyers). Everyone should keep in mind its an Apple rule - so if anything Apple would just take the app down from their store until this rule is met. This also means it is up to Apple to interpret the rule. The issue lies in that the lootboxes we have (card packs) are not solely attainable from use of money. Any player knows it practically is since we all know how many gems we get for free but technically you can purchase the lootboxes without ever spending a dime. This makes it grey and less of a hot target for enforcing the new rule. Could it be enforced immediately? Yes. Will it? More than likely not. Apple will more than likely crack down on any app that has more direct-purchase loot boxes similar to Overwatch (just using an example I know, though its not an app) where, sure, you get the boxes from leveling/etc.. but the only PURCHASE of these lootboxes is directly with money. I'm usually wary of Internet lawyers but your point of view seems likely. Well, we'll have to see what Apple does once every single app that contravenes these rules simply makes an in-game currency and carries on, if so. As for the threat of taking their app off the App Store, I hope and believe that is a big enough blow to profit margins that companies will at least consider bowing to the pressure.
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Post by Doomkin✪NFS on Jan 4, 2018 16:16:59 GMT
I'm usually wary of Internet lawyers but your point of view seems likely. Well, we'll have to see what Apple does once every single app that contravenes these rules simply makes an in-game currency and carries on, if so. As for the threat of taking their app off the App Store, I hope and believe that is a big enough blow to profit margins that companies will at least consider bowing to the pressure. Yeah, it's more than just no new downloads if removed - it's also inability to release updates.
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