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Post by thundergod on May 27, 2015 23:00:09 GMT
Andy is right, Zora is not a viable replacement for Wight in terms of getting max damage. Zora needs a much higher card requirement to match Wight in some maps. In some harder maps, it's not going to be possible to match Wight damage.
It can be fun to use otherwise though.
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Post by ferrett✪NFS on May 27, 2015 23:53:37 GMT
I am not sure it is necessarily about it being a full replacement for Wight and more about what people can do if they only have access to Zora and with relatively accessible cards to a poor/new/unlucky player.
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Post by SoaponaRope [BK] on May 28, 2015 0:14:38 GMT
The point isn't to get something better than Wight, it's supposed to be just an option for newer players to do well, at least 150k in optimal conditions so they can get 500k g per run. Remember that low level wight damage is still lackluster, so if this works it may help even more people.
The last reason for this deck was so autoing would be an option. With a successful zora build you could auto almost immediately every round.
With all of the recent nerfs I won't be surprised to see both wight and Zora be maxed at 2k (damage from wight and Atk from zora), and if that happens wight will still always out perform zora.
Lastly, I'm going to be waiting until we get some more info on the runes system since it may be integral in maximizing the utility of this deck.
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Post by mortivore on May 28, 2015 8:24:44 GMT
I've done 3-500k damage with zora with same cards as i use on my wight. If they nerf wight, zora will for sure top tier in GM
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Post by kakola on May 28, 2015 11:05:54 GMT
I think wight nerf is coming sooner or later. Or if not they probably fix mantra instead. Then its zora + bless with atk boost runes all the way. Until they nerf Zora too
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Post by stuuu✪NFS on May 28, 2015 14:07:44 GMT
you guys are doing something wrong if you max out at 500k with Zora. A single Panther Chief can do that. There are some maps that Wight is a million times better, but there are other maps where Zora is better because it can wipe the whole board. Guild map needs a minimum of 3 bless cards so with Wight it's almost impossible to get the final two, and against a full deck it's almost impossible to survive long enough with 3 creatures. They would all need Bless 10, Fatigue. and Frost Armor. I guess you could have 3 Dragonlords melded with Fatigue... If they ever have Dragonlord boosters I'll buy 10000 of them so I can make that deck... A Zora deck with Paladins, Bloodletters, Panther Chiefs, Oracles, and Blood Warlocks can go far. Perhaps I'll make a video if I can't get Zora visible in a screenshot with damage. Recommended melds:
Oracle with Frost Armor Blood Warlock with Earth Totem Horned Beast with Bless 10 Paladin with Lifesap or Frost Armor Panther Chief with Battleblow 8 Swordmaster with Bloodlust Technochief with Lifesap
Basically you need 7 creatures with both Mass Heal and Bless and 3 creatures with Lifesap/Warlust/Bloodlust. Here is a viable deck:
7 Blood Warlock with Earth Totem 6 (or even 7 if you feel like farming that 4* Neander guy whose name I'm not gonna look up) 3 Panther Chief (don't even need to meld him)
There you are. 10 creature with 3k hp, 4000 or whatever Bless, 1050 Mass heal. I'm not saying this is the greatest guild deck ever, but it can get you more than 500k on a lot of maps.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 15:02:25 GMT
I tried zora long time ago. Gonna try it again now since he is a little better. I like the life sap idea, i have sekhmet so his attack goes up pretty quick, so ill try the combination. Anyway thanks for posting soap
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Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on May 28, 2015 15:13:31 GMT
I still think +hp and mass heal is way more useful than lifesap but warlust is definitely an interesting idea. Lifesap obviously provides some security but I don't see it working as the core mechanic in the deck. Bless treant guides, earth totem warlocks or unmelded oracles are defintely going to be the mvps imo.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 17:08:26 GMT
Also Valmourn and Berserker are good there too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 13:54:22 GMT
I tried zora (vitality 8)+ 6 bloody warlock (earth totem6, vitality rune lvl 5-7), 1 panther chief, 1 ursa major on my second account, it's just not working at all There's too many cards that can beat the warlock in 1-2 turns before you can use all of them, like Fafnir, phoenix, battle blow, sweeping blow, freeze, delay Once you loose a bloody warlock it's pretty much over, they will just die or your hero will. Instant lose against disposal, retreat. i wish i had meld frost armor instead, but it's still weak against heavy magic dmg+freez, and vitality 8 doesn't provide enough hp, I think you need at least life 8 from a 3*hero to survive long enough and get all your warlock on the field.
Now i'm really sad, having like 20 bloody warlock on my main account x(
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Post by Sithys [BK] on Jun 19, 2015 16:00:19 GMT
I think an underrated card to add to those bloody warlocks is the Tauros Elder ... 4 explore nodes and comes out of the box with battleblow 7 which ramps with zora's damage add and Earth Totem 7 ... with 175 block he can soak alot more hits with those warlocks alongside, especially if you pump a heal rune on the hero. You can even frost armor one to deliberately stick in front of a bit damager/sweeper so only 5 damage leaks ... not ideal for building zora damage bonus, but can really keep you alive if you play it a bit smart. Heal rune on a hero is ridiculous btw, especially if you stack healers with healer runes ... I currently have Heal Amplify Rune IV at only lvl 4 and every heal that is done by any creature is bumped by +72 on every creature it lands on - not only that, every healer run is at 10% ATK bonus or more, and they stack Treant Guides are easy as hell to run out and become absolutely insane healers if you can syn it with faen creatures. I do wonder how that would go with Centaur Chiefs ... hrmmm...
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Post by SoaponaRope [BK] on Jun 19, 2015 16:35:48 GMT
Yes part of this project has been pushed back with the introduction of runes as I look for new ways to improve the initial survivability with some of the card options. Healing Runes and Hero's Improved Heals Rune are game changers for sure. The +atk from the creature Heal Runes seem to only last until that Creature's next attack, but they do stack with eachother and also Treant Guides stack twice.
There are maps where Zora already works but there are a lot of other maps where it's extremely difficult to get off the ground because the first set of creatures dropped dies before additional healing can achieve sustain. There are also some maps with just too much lock-down.
I am still working on this project and I have hope so I just didn't want people to think I had given up on it.
Thanks for all the feedback guys and keep me posted!
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Post by Sithys [BK] on Jun 19, 2015 16:45:55 GMT
I have toyed with the idea of 8 treant guides with either block or +fae atk on them ... melded a +atk one in the meld event the other day but too many other higher energy priorities to really give it a good go any time soon on my main account. I might just do that on an alt account for the giggles. each one healing 400+ per round and double buffing atk % on top of zora's base atk bonus would put some frightening numbers up if it could actually get off the ground and reach sustain. Edit: Correction, melded +175 ATK not hp, they come with Hp already
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Post by SoaponaRope [BK] on Jun 19, 2015 17:18:41 GMT
I have toyed with the idea of 8 treant guides with either block or +fae atk on them ... melded a +atk one in the meld event the other day but too many other higher energy priorities to really give it a good go any time soon on my main account. I might just do that on an alt account for the giggles. each one healing 400+ per round and double buffing atk % on top of zora's base atk bonus would put some frightening numbers up if it could actually get off the ground and reach sustain. Edit: Correction, melded +175 ATK not hp, they come with Hp already I wouldn't worry about ATK for them. If they stay alive with Zora they will be doing massive damage in a few turns. What you'd want at that point would be either a % modifier or something to improve survivability, but remember that reducing damage will also reduce ATK gains from Zora. The deck I have right now that's Faen: - Frost Rager (Bless)
- Frost Rager (Bless)
- Treant Guide (Bless)
- Treant Guide (Bless)
- Treant Guide (Bless)
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
There are some levels that are impossible to overcome with this setup, even in Map 1. There are some maps where this can/has worked however. I think to improve the damage output the best bet might just be Battleblow 8. The 160% damage output obviously stacks with the increase in ATK from Zora and produces massive physical hits. Unfortunately Miasma/Sneak/etc require 4-star Creatures. Bloodlust and Anger are other options but the ATK gains from these skills is much less than Zora's skill. Still, additional additive damage is welcome. I'm still working to get my head around all of the available skills after accounting for Runes. The goal will obviously still be to have runes easily accessible for newer players.
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Post by Sithys [BK] on Jun 19, 2015 17:41:20 GMT
Battleblow is a nice option, put those alert guards to good use ... I wonder if dodge would be a viable option? The dodge rune is kind of nice, it reflects a % of the creatures damage back as a sweeping blow. Using one of those on a recycle horned beast atm, it's rather nice. Again damage mitigated though, but I wonder if it would be worth the tradeoff for early survivability. With a few zora ramps, the dodged % damage reflect might shine.
EDIT: clarification, it reflects a % of YOUR damage across (to creature and adjacents), not the attacking creature's damage
eDIT2: actually I think this would work very well considering it also procs off dodged sweeping blows to adjacent creatures.
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Post by hellion✪NFS on Jun 19, 2015 21:47:57 GMT
I have toyed with the idea of 8 treant guides with either block or +fae atk on them ... melded a +atk one in the meld event the other day but too many other higher energy priorities to really give it a good go any time soon on my main account. I might just do that on an alt account for the giggles. each one healing 400+ per round and double buffing atk % on top of zora's base atk bonus would put some frightening numbers up if it could actually get off the ground and reach sustain. Edit: Correction, melded +175 ATK not hp, they come with Hp already I wouldn't worry about ATK for them. If they stay alive with Zora they will be doing massive damage in a few turns. What you'd want at that point would be either a % modifier or something to improve survivability, but remember that reducing damage will also reduce ATK gains from Zora. The deck I have right now that's Faen: - Frost Rager (Bless)
- Frost Rager (Bless)
- Treant Guide (Bless)
- Treant Guide (Bless)
- Treant Guide (Bless)
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
There are some levels that are impossible to overcome with this setup, even in Map 1. There are some maps where this can/has worked however. I think to improve the damage output the best bet might just be Battleblow 8. The 160% damage output obviously stacks with the increase in ATK from Zora and produces massive physical hits. Unfortunately Miasma/Sneak/etc require 4-star Creatures. Bloodlust and Anger are other options but the ATK gains from these skills is much less than Zora's skill. Still, additional additive damage is welcome. I'm still working to get my head around all of the available skills after accounting for Runes. The goal will obviously still be to have runes easily accessible for newer players. I am currently working on a similar Deck on my ALT Account but ran out of gold I plan to have 2 Henrietta's since they have a similar skillset to Treant Guide (+ Fean HP/Heal) and will help against lockdown. If melded with Frost Armor you can use them as early blockers. Biggest Problem with this deck will be retreat maps since Fean lack good Stoneskin creatures. Moon Guardian is ok I guess if you go for Flaming as a Hero talent.
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Post by ninjafred on Sept 15, 2015 9:30:16 GMT
I have toyed with the idea of 8 treant guides with either block or +fae atk on them ... melded a +atk one in the meld event the other day but too many other higher energy priorities to really give it a good go any time soon on my main account. I might just do that on an alt account for the giggles. each one healing 400+ per round and double buffing atk % on top of zora's base atk bonus would put some frightening numbers up if it could actually get off the ground and reach sustain. Edit: Correction, melded +175 ATK not hp, they come with Hp already I wouldn't worry about ATK for them. If they stay alive with Zora they will be doing massive damage in a few turns. What you'd want at that point would be either a % modifier or something to improve survivability, but remember that reducing damage will also reduce ATK gains from Zora. The deck I have right now that's Faen: - Frost Rager (Bless)
- Frost Rager (Bless)
- Treant Guide (Bless)
- Treant Guide (Bless)
- Treant Guide (Bless)
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
- Treant Guide
There are some levels that are impossible to overcome with this setup, even in Map 1. There are some maps where this can/has worked however. I think to improve the damage output the best bet might just be Battleblow 8. The 160% damage output obviously stacks with the increase in ATK from Zora and produces massive physical hits. Unfortunately Miasma/Sneak/etc require 4-star Creatures. Bloodlust and Anger are other options but the ATK gains from these skills is much less than Zora's skill. Still, additional additive damage is welcome. I'm still working to get my head around all of the available skills after accounting for Runes. The goal will obviously still be to have runes easily accessible for newer players. I've tried a similar setup with runes. Treant guides are melded with Holy light 5 from Voltic Priest, which helps in the setup phase when you have 3 to 6 crits deployed. Also I used the best Heal Modifier Rune I could afford for Zora (currently +45 per heal) which helps a lot. I Did 1.2M damage yesterday on a fresh map, clearing every single creature without FA. Definitely, I have to thank you Soap, this deck is a killer ! My setup is : Frost Rager melded Bless 7 * 3 Treant Guide melded Holy Light 5 * 3 Treant Guide unmelded * 4 I will definitely try to upgrade the remaining unmelded Guides, Half with Bless and Half with Holy Light.
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Post by Gallows Dodger on Sept 25, 2015 18:57:58 GMT
My alt has 10 warlocks melded with earth totem 6, Game doesn't want to give me Zora but as soon as it does I'll test it. With a high level heal amp rune they survive quite well and the poison doesn't get wiped by mantra.
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Post by adon0shoko on Sept 27, 2015 15:49:44 GMT
i usually use zora when the enemy has around 6~ non lockdown fighters, and it works best if they have one or two magic center creatures , 2 oracles with bless, 2 bless rages\blood warlocks(each with 300 earth totem) depends on the situation, 2 panther cheif and another fa fighter (i hope i'll do a frost amazon this meld event, also created a fa jugger), usually ursa...i try using the panther cheifs as 1+2, (it usually works with 7\8 fighters) , and if i can that the third one will also be sort of fa creature than healers.
with warlust (which is not that upgraded) every turn the panthers give another 30 attack, plus 50\100 each hit they take + 58 for every melee attack and much more for magical attack, they heal themselves every turn (thats why they're the best for this tactic, hoping the jugger will work same way) and if they do get frozen or locked two heals are usually enough to keep they're hp for next turn.
i usually am able to get much over 500k damage(not coins, damage!) with that strategy which is super easy and cheap to get (a lot of maps give panther, fa oracles are a must for every deck, blood warlocks are very easy to get...), and you can use sword masters to replace or just as an add on since they are fast to put on the deck
the main problems for zora decks are lock down, retreat and fa decks...even hero killing deck imo are'nt that much of a problem the momeny you killed the retreat creatures because you still have 3-4 healers in the deck...
oops sorry didnt notice its an old thread S:
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Post by tanisomsford on Dec 3, 2015 20:40:04 GMT
I think this thread needs some updated attention. AND a resolution.
The OP set out to create a how to for low level guys to get over 100k damage with a non wight setup. I like these more recent posts. Have you guys tried these Zora decks after the 8.0 GM update? Is creature healing a hig issue here?
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Post by tanisomsford on Dec 3, 2015 21:11:09 GMT
Has anyone successfully modded this method to deal with one or two retreat cards?
Perhaps it can consist of a base of 8 crits with two "wild cards"with bullseye or stoneskin or something to that effect for the couple tough crits. Thoughts?
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Post by SirGin on Dec 10, 2015 1:55:34 GMT
Well now that Mythril Drone can be got with ore from the mines I think it would be invaluable for Zora gm decks. He would decrease the atk gain from lack of magic atks but you should still get good atk gains right? It is always possibly to get a crappy draw but would be worth putting in imo. Or am I wrong?
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Post by soebandrijo on Dec 10, 2015 2:10:54 GMT
Well now that Mythril Drone can be got with ore from the mines I think it would be invaluable for Zora gm decks. He would decrease the atk gain from lack of magic atks but you should still get good atk gains right? It is always possibly to get a crappy draw but would be worth putting in imo. Or am I wrong? would be great on lockdown maps. damn now I'm tempted to mine....
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Post by gfaq on Dec 10, 2015 8:45:57 GMT
I am using a Zora deck with : 1 Mythril drone, 4 Oracles (1 melded with FA, the other 3 vainilla) 1 Ash Beast , 2 Swordmasters melded with Healing (to heal everyone). I then have 1 Ursa Major + another FA creature or 2 Dragon Raiders (for the Stone Skin).
It works wonders if you get the right hand. On map 1-8 I just did yesterday 980k damage.
I have to put down the Swordmasters, Oracles and Mytrill drone down to keep Zora alive and hold the line. Then I drop Dragon Riders in from of Retreat (if any) The main damage comes from the Dragon Raiders and the Ash Beast.
I had to pud a Hero Vigor rune on Zora to be able to wait to drop my hold hand (5 creatures) 1 one go so they heal each other.
If there are already some creatures dead on the map, I usually put a Queen Temtress to avoid rage issues. I am working on getting more Oracles (and more melded with FA and Inmunity)...
If you get the wrong hand, you may get only 5-10k damage (usually on magic heavy maps, or Retreat ones if you don't get a couple of healers to help the Dragon Riders stay alive. I will keep updating as my deck improves. I think that I will change the Ash Beast for Techno-Chief once I meld them (maybe Battle blow). If there is a lot of FA take away the Dragon riders and put Titania or any card that avoids Frost Armor. (I am going to an all Human deck as I have a lot of Human cards...
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Post by gfaq on Dec 17, 2015 14:13:55 GMT
I keep working on this deck. I am using now :
Zora + Hero Vigor rune (+12k life) + Heal Aplify (+54 healing)
5 Oracles (2 melded FA) 2 swordmasters (Melded Healing all) 1 Mythril Drone 2 Dragon Raiders (Or 1 Techno Chief Melded Life Sap 8 + 1 Sentry Angel or 1 Pontif, but harded to get)
1 Queen temptress on certain cases (if at least 2 creatures are dead on the Guild Map)
For the moment the issues are :
- If I don't get Mythril drone down early and there is a ton of magic damage you die. - If there is Poisson Ivy I dish too much damange and all my creatures die. I cannot do more than 200k damage on the map. - If there is Rip I try to use a Centaur Chief Melded (FA) to avoid all Physical damage.
So, on certain maps I do a lot of damage (up to 1m) on others 100-200k damage and others where I cannot go over 50k...(I have only the 3 first maps of the guild open)
I think I will try with another heroe against Poisson Ivy.
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Post by SirGin on Dec 17, 2015 16:50:39 GMT
I keep working on this deck. I am using now : Zora + Hero Vigor rune (+12k life) + Heal Aplify (+54 healing) 5 Oracles (2 melded FA) 2 swordmasters (Melded Healing all) 1 Mythril Drone 2 Dragon Raiders (Or 1 Techno Chief Melded Life Sap 8 + 1 Sentry Angel or 1 Pontif, but harded to get) 1 Queen temptress on certain cases (if at least 2 creatures are dead on the Guild Map) For the moment the issues are : - If I don't get Mythril drone down early and there is a ton of magic damage you die. - If there is Poisson Ivy I dish too much damange and all my creatures die. I cannot do more than 200k damage on the map. - If there is Rip I try to use a Centaur Chief Melded (FA) to avoid all Physical damage. So, on certain maps I do a lot of damage (up to 1m) on others 100-200k damage and others where I cannot go over 50k...(I have only the 3 first maps of the guild open) I think I will try with another heroe against Poisson Ivy. I think we have the same problems. Zora - Battlewill 3 , Firecatcher 9 Hero Vigor 5 lv2, All Vigor 3 lv5, Heal Amp 3 lv8 Mythril Drone lv10 - Vitality 5 lv4 Fafnir lv10 - Vitality 4 lv3 Swordmaster lv15 Oracle lv15 - FA3 3x Oracle lv15 2x Oracle lv10 I'm hoping to get my Oaracle's all to lv 15, 3 with FA and 3 with Immunity. By the time that happens I'm hoping to have my deck cost increased so I can put in a tenth creature. It aint perfect but it helps. Any suggestions?
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Post by cozy on Dec 25, 2015 17:57:11 GMT
I've got an alt dedicated to this, and have some melds planned on next meld day:
2-3 Treant Guide w/ bless 7 2-3 Treant Guide w/ holy light 4-5 Frost Rager w/ bless 7
I haven't been able to set up the board yet, I lose a card or two too quickly.
The frost ragers are actually a liability as they take down your total healing. They only help if blocking a bb8 or sweeping blow card. Getting a 2 or 3 star heal amplify rune seems pretty important, I've only gotten the 1 star version so far.
I am thinking the holy light 5 Treant Guide is going to do a lot. If I can get a lvl 4 heal amplify (3 star) rune it will heal all for 472 and the lowest creature an additional 161.
Will update when progress is made...
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Post by cozy on Dec 25, 2015 18:02:43 GMT
Has anyone successfully modded this method to deal with one or two retreat cards? Perhaps it can consist of a base of 8 crits with two "wild cards"with bullseye or stoneskin or something to that effect for the couple tough crits. Thoughts? My first inclination is to use a couple horned beasts, unmelded. But only having 70% immunity could fail pretty quickly, so it might be a better idea to go for border rangers melded with holy light. I'll see if I can save up for that and give it a shot. In response to anyone talking about melding 4*s I think that goes against one of the points of this thread. By the time you can get one or more 4* melds done you can have a wight.
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Post by SirGin on Dec 25, 2015 18:41:41 GMT
I agree that by the time you can meld 4*'s you have gotten away from the essence of this thread.
Holy light 5 would be a good addition to treant guides. I assume frost ragers can take holy light as well. Heal amplify runed out the wazoo would be nice. The objective being 100k dmg in maps. Horned beast would be your friend in retreat maps. He ain't perfect but good enough with his skillset.
The reason I posted about all the four stars is cause my zora deck will continually evolve to meet my needs in guild maps. I started with treant guides, frost ragers and horned beast. Now I am evolving and hopefully showing a possible path for anyone that wants to go this way though there are many.
As a side note I just did 1.4 mil dmg on gm 1-3 with a zora build and even though I like Wight I think I am gonna stick it out with Zora and see what his potential really is in gm's.
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tanisomsford
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Jun 19, 2015 16:42:31 GMT
June 2015
tanisomsford
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Post by tanisomsford on Dec 25, 2015 20:55:43 GMT
Has anyone successfully modded this method to deal with one or two retreat cards? Perhaps it can consist of a base of 8 crits with two "wild cards"with bullseye or stoneskin or something to that effect for the couple tough crits. Thoughts? My first inclination is to use a couple horned beasts, unmelded. But only having 70% immunity could fail pretty quickly, so it might be a better idea to go for border rangers melded with holy light. I'll see if I can save up for that and give it a shot. In response to anyone talking about melding 4*s I think that goes against one of the points of this thread. By the time you can get one or more 4* melds done you can have a wight. You do make a good point on what the intent of the thread originally was, however, since this thread originally came out, there's been major changes Including healing crits. With that in mind, I think this thread now has another angle in it for helping mid level players be able to consistently hit 100k + damage so they can get 4-6 million coins per day consistently. And if zora has become a slightly easier hero to hit that damage consistantly without needing as much maintenance as wight does, then that can have some really broad appeal. In my own guild I had to institute a 500k damage cap so we can build contributions fast enough. So this concept is tremendous in a guild like mine. FWIW you guys. I think this direction you guys have taken this thread is really awesome! Please keep building on this concept.
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