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Post by tanisomsford on Jan 20, 2017 10:35:09 GMT
I think he just waits for the instakill creature to come in the first round, thus implying not a very efficient win rate. Btw Unbound oracles can not be frozen Oh yeah, I'd completely forgotten the one thing Unbound is good for since I never use it XD. But, yeah. If a single one of your creatures is killed, you're losing, guaranteed. Seriously yuna. You keep posting "you can't do that" messages on this. And it's starting to feel a little too much. I just finished my second rune now. Using only unbound oracles per the OP. my wins went as follows... 2/3 refresh 4/5 refresh 6/9 refresh 8/14 refresh 10/17 good enough for today. If instakill is first three dropped, you win. Period. If instakill is last four dropped, you win. If chainstriker is first or second, drop one oracle to start and you are 50/50 win. Bullseye rune doesn't proc with ice shell. Only Battle blow will kill one of the first two oracles. My tracking on this build now is enough that I confidently say you will have a 50% win rate, with my best day 6/8, and my worst day was 4/14. No exaggeration, no hidden anything Yuna. It works. So please dude. Stop slamming guys here that are trying to find ways to squeak out this rune early. There's nothing wrong with trying. And IMO there IS something wrong with just throwing negative at it. Monkeylords build based in his post is obviously a better build, but this is an option for people too.
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Post by Yuna on Jan 20, 2017 10:55:37 GMT
Oh yeah, I'd completely forgotten the one thing Unbound is good for since I never use it XD. But, yeah. If a single one of your creatures is killed, you're losing, guaranteed. Seriously yuna. You keep posting "you can't do that" messages on this. And it's starting to feel a little too much. I just finished my second rune now. Using only unbound oracles per the OP. my wins went as follows... 2/3 refresh 4/5 refresh 6/9 refresh 8/14 refresh 10/17 good enough for today. If instakill is first three dropped, you win. Period. If instakill is last four dropped, you win. If chainstriker is first or second, drop one oracle to start and you are 50/50 win. Bullseye rune doesn't proc with ice shell. Only Battle blow will kill one of the first two oracles. My tracking on this build now is enough that I confidently say you will have a 50% win rate, with my best day 6/8, and my worst day was 4/14. No exaggeration, no hidden anything Yuna. It works. So please dude. Stop slamming guys here that are trying to find ways to squeak out this rune early. There's nothing wrong with trying. And IMO there IS something wrong with just throwing negative at it. Monkeylords build based in his post is obviously a better build, but this is an option for people too. Try reading people's posts before replying to them. " If a single one of your creatures is killed, you're losing, guaranteed."
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Post by swordfish on Jan 20, 2017 15:24:20 GMT
Hey guys, for the Henrietta build, is it possible to run it without the Dragonlords? I also only have a 4* level 8 heal rune. Are you able to just run it with 10 Henriettas?
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Post by waggo on Jan 20, 2017 15:53:25 GMT
Try reading people's posts before replying to them. " If a single one of your creatures is killed, you're losing, guaranteed." And this is not true. If Instakill is one of the last played cards and kills a Oracle, its with hero vigor 8 still fine. If Instakill comes as 5th-8th card, its over
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Post by Yuna on Jan 20, 2017 16:51:08 GMT
Try reading people's posts before replying to them. " If a single one of your creatures is killed, you're losing, guaranteed." And this is not true. If Instakill is one of the last played cards and kills a Oracle, its with hero vigor 8 still fine. If Instakill comes as 5th-8th card, its over Fine, let's be pedantic. If one of your Oracles is killed, unless it happens around round 28 or so, you're losing, guaranteed. There's also more ways to lose a creature than just getting Instakilled. Specific draw orders can screw you up, even if Instakill doesn't kill anything, what with Chainstrike and Bullseye in the mix.
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Post by swordfish on Jan 20, 2017 17:03:50 GMT
Would you guys please stop bickering? Your points have been made, and now you're just arguing for its own sake. You guys both agree that it's not a perfect build, and you both recognize its weaknesses. So Yuna, please let up on the negative criticism. And TanisOmsford, don't feel obligated to defend against each criticism. It just isn't benefitting anyone at this point.
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Post by tanisomsford on Jan 21, 2017 19:22:59 GMT
I think he just waits for the instakill creature to come in the first round, thus implying not a very efficient win rate. Btw Unbound oracles can not be frozen if instakil is one of the first 3 cards, noone of your cards will die. if it is cards 4, you can wait one round if you have hero vigor lvl8. If its cards 5-7, you lose. card 8-10 is with lvl8 hero vigor ok. so you win theoretically in 70%, which is around my real winrate Hey Waggo. Six oracles and four seraphs are much faster to obtain. Is there a case ( like getting three seraphs first) where you have trouble getting the Royal guards blessing cycle started?
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Post by tanisomsford on Jan 21, 2017 19:31:18 GMT
I think he just waits for the instakill creature to come in the first round, thus implying not a very efficient win rate. Btw Unbound oracles can not be frozen if instakil is one of the first 3 cards, noone of your cards will die. if it is cards 4, you can wait one round if you have hero vigor lvl8. If its cards 5-7, you lose. card 8-10 is with lvl8 hero vigor ok. so you win theoretically in 70%, which is around my real winrate You may be onto something using seraphs, kind of a "poor guys" way to squeaking out some wins. Since seraphs uses restoration, perhaps lv10 restore runes might really help the healing to ensure the hero rage cycle. Also, if Royal guards blessing skill cycle breaks at turn four / five as it did a couple times for me before I had all cards unbound, you can buy a rage buff to help ensure royal guard gets 100 rage every turn. Thats the key to winning this challenge using the Royal guard method.
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Post by sblip on Jan 21, 2017 19:56:07 GMT
i'm going to try it with some seraphs, since i'm a loooong way off from having enough unbound / immu oracles will post back in 6 months lol
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Post by cozy on Jan 21, 2017 20:22:33 GMT
if instakil is one of the first 3 cards, noone of your cards will die. if it is cards 4, you can wait one round if you have hero vigor lvl8. If its cards 5-7, you lose. card 8-10 is with lvl8 hero vigor ok. so you win theoretically in 70%, which is around my real winrate Hey Waggo. Six oracles and four seraphs are much faster to obtain. Is there a case ( like getting three seraphs first) where you have trouble getting the Royal guards blessing cycle started? I would imagine if you start off with all four seraphs you might not get adequate healing to generate rage. Perhaps someone knows the numbers to see if blesses would do enough
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Post by tanisomsford on Jan 21, 2017 22:26:06 GMT
i'm going to try it with some seraphs, since i'm a loooong way off from having enough unbound / immu oracles will post back in 6 months lol I think it would be appropriate now for IGG to allow Oracles to draw from the coupon altar. With the current meta and play cards out now, it wouldn't be damaging to game balance or anything. Just a thought.
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Post by sblip on Jan 22, 2017 5:18:50 GMT
i'm going to try it with some seraphs, since i'm a loooong way off from having enough unbound / immu oracles will post back in 6 months lol I think it would be appropriate now for IGG to allow Oracles to draw from the coupon altar. With the current meta and play cards out now, it wouldn't be damaging to game balance or anything. Just a thought. You should totally email them and let them know their thoughts, I'm sure they will totally listen.
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Post by Yuna on Jan 22, 2017 10:37:09 GMT
i'm going to try it with some seraphs, since i'm a loooong way off from having enough unbound / immu oracles will post back in 6 months lol I think it would be appropriate now for IGG to allow Oracles to draw from the coupon altar. With the current meta and play cards out now, it wouldn't be damaging to game balance or anything. Just a thought. None of the strongest of the 4-star creatures are available from the altar by design: You have to spend energy to explore for them. Of course it would screw up the balanace. What you're talking about is just making it easier for new players (or players who have not bothered to explore for them) to get them. That's not balance.
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Post by monkeylord on Jan 22, 2017 11:50:28 GMT
Hey guys, for the Henrietta build, is it possible to run it without the Dragonlords? I also only have a 4* level 8 heal rune. Are you able to just run it with 10 Henriettas? Hmm weird idea, but maybe fa on a dream guide, or just use a bigger hero vigor rune.
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Post by lavep on Jan 22, 2017 21:02:08 GMT
None of the strongest of the 4-star creatures are available from the altar by design: You have to spend energy to explore for them. Of course it would screw up the balanace. What you're talking about is just making it easier for new players (or players who have not bothered to explore for them) to get them. That's not balance. IMHO all cards should be summonable from altar. And I MEAN all cards and not just from gem altar. It's ridiculous that altar is limited to just few old creatures and summon pool only modified during sky arenas and only on gem altar while coupon altar pool stays same from game release. To encourage spending igg could just increase odds of summoning from gem altar or special booster packs I'd also love to see if they'd replace pale dragon and pit priest junk in relic chest drops with 4* rare cards used in seals and transmutation
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Post by Yuna on Jan 22, 2017 21:59:50 GMT
None of the strongest of the 4-star creatures are available from the altar by design: You have to spend energy to explore for them. Of course it would screw up the balanace. What you're talking about is just making it easier for new players (or players who have not bothered to explore for them) to get them. That's not balance. IMHO all cards should be summonable from altar. And I MEAN all cards and not just from gem altar. It's ridiculous that altar is limited to just few old creatures and summon pool only modified during sky arenas and only on gem altar while coupon altar pool stays same from game release. To encourage spending igg could just increase odds of summoning from gem altar or special booster packs I'd also love to see if they'd replace pale dragon and pit priest junk in relic chest drops with 4* rare cards used in seals and transmutation Have you ever played a freemium game ever? Every single freemium game has separate "altars", one that's premium and has the strongest creatures and one with weaker creatures. Deck Heroes actually has some unusually strong creatures available at the Coupon Altar (for being free). In comparison to all other freemium games I've played, Deck Heroes is actually leaps and bounds ahead of most companies in how strong the creatures available at the free altar are. Why would any company make all creatures, including the strongest in the game, available at the free altar? To appease players who will never in a million years spent a single dollar on the game?
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Post by tanisomsford on Jan 22, 2017 22:27:03 GMT
I think it would be appropriate now for IGG to allow Oracles to draw from the coupon altar. With the current meta and play cards out now, it wouldn't be damaging to game balance or anything. Just a thought. None of the strongest of the 4-star creatures are available from the altar by design: You have to spend energy to explore for them. Of course it would screw up the balanace. What you're talking about is just making it easier for new players (or players who have not bothered to explore for them) to get them. That's not balance. LMAO!!! Oh Yuna, you are adorable dude! But perhaps you are right...that darn oracle, let me recount how many Oracles I saw in the top 100 ranking decks again...you know, since it would be a big balance issue of course.
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Post by lavep on Jan 23, 2017 2:07:38 GMT
Have you ever played a freemium game ever? Every single freemium game has separate "altars", one that's premium and has the strongest creatures and one with weaker creatures. Deck Heroes actually has some unusually strong creatures available at the Coupon Altar (for being free). In comparison to all other freemium games I've played, Deck Heroes is actually leaps and bounds ahead of most companies in how strong the creatures available at the free altar are. Why would any company make all creatures, including the strongest in the game, available at the free altar? To appease players who will never in a million years spent a single dollar on the game? As a matter of fact from all games I play DH is the only one that follow that approach i know you will not understand with your tunnel vision and we'll go back to our old debacle about free to play and pay to play styles but having same summon pool for gems and coupons/summon stones/tickets, etc actually benefits game rather than hurt it. It gives slight chance to get premium cards to all players and enhance players engagement rates ( see how most people value relics or Alice bond exactly because of the same reasons) I said that before. To encourage spending enough just to have different summon odds between gem and coupon altar. Besides having many cards in pool decrease odds of summoning specific card. Here is a reason why people will go for booster packs instead of trying coupons. And of course coupons are limited resource. Once you run out you either wait until you save more or spend gems. So it's win win from any point of view but yours and finally, there is always possibility to sell newest premium cards exclusively via booster packs and exclude them from any type of altar. But IMHO it should be limited to first 3-4 month after card release to milk whale spenders that want immediate advantage and after that move cards to global summon pool
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Post by xychant on Jan 23, 2017 5:09:09 GMT
IGG could just enhance the pool of 5 star creatures that are now getting old. since so many new, strong and better ones are appearing it wouöd not hurt the balance of the game. not much maybe put in a magmus, quetz and revenant. something like that.
btw. yuna is right that most f2p games have 2 or more altars. the thing is, most of these games put into the best (mostly p2w) altar the whole champion/creatue pool. also value is better in lot other games
like in towers of savior, i played a lot, have a fairer system. 5 diamonds 1 draw. you get 1 diamond a day for free. they even made a altar for 3 gems with still good but weaker pool cards.
igg should also give at least some shards out for events like sky arena. it not only lacks rewards but variety too. you get the same lousy 300 gems and 4 star cards. booring....
make that you have a chance to get a 5* star shard after a win. chances are that in end and when you nearly never missed a scroll reset timer, that you have around 10-15 shards max. put in some creatures like mimir or fafnir. and you can spend 20-100 gems for every try to increase the chance, that ptw guys can farm them to habe more meld available.
they should just need some imagination. there i am back again..in towers of savior you get the best cards by guild events and if you are yourself good during that.
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Post by tanisomsford on Jan 23, 2017 5:20:04 GMT
IGG could just enhance the pool of 5 star creatures that are now getting old. since so many new, strong and better ones are appearing it wouöd not hurt the balance of the game. not much maybe put in a magmus, quetz and revenant. something like that. btw. yuna is right that most f2p games have 2 or more altars. the thing is, most of these games put into the best (mostly p2w) altar the whole champion/creatue pool. also value is better in lot other games like in towers of savior, i played a lot, have a fairer system. 5 diamonds 1 draw. you get 1 diamond a day for free. they even made a altar for 3 gems with still good but weaker pool cards. igg should also give at least some shards out for events like sky arena. it not only lacks rewards but variety too. you get the same lousy 300 gems and 4 star cards. booring.... make that you have a chance to get a 5* star shard after a win. chances are that in end and when you nearly never missed a scroll reset timer, that you have around 10-15 shards max. put in some creatures like mimir or fafnir. and you can spend 20-100 gems for every try to increase the chance, that ptw guys can farm them to habe more meld available. they should just need some imagination. there i am back again..in towers of savior you get the best cards by guild events and if you are yourself good during that. Sorry guys, didn't intend to change thread topic. I really was just thinking when you do, say, 200 coupon draws in a month, and get about ten four star cards from that ( just picking a number from personal experience), if one or two of those is an oracle, that's a nice help from all the grinding to get the thirty to fifty you need to do all your GM or Grimoire stuff. But the reality, is in the end here, the predator build is an easier grind(lol, unless a few members want it, then the guild needs to supply 30-50 Henrietta's) so nothing wrong with just going that way too.
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Post by spizz0 on Jan 23, 2017 7:24:07 GMT
the predator build is an easier grind... I think it's easier on paper but may fail in practice... have you seen what runes do monkeylord have on his faens?
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Post by tanisomsford on Jan 23, 2017 8:44:38 GMT
the predator build is an easier grind... I think it's easier on paper but may fail in practice... have you seen what runes do monkeylord have on his faens? Yes I have, but most people in the pages of this thread have been having a very hard time emotionally dealing with the alternative of grinding out ten unbound oracles. To some, that's worse than Monkeylords option. And I get it. I started it casually in January last year. Mind you I wasn't seriously grinding it but at the later stage I started hitting hard and even spending gems to double explore oracles, but even then it was a slow process. I'd say, using omnis from relics here and there, as well as double exploring oracles, and also Valhalla 2 a day, you can still expect it to take a month to finish ten, so three months to finish 30. Maybe you lucky meld a couple, maybe not. So then it takes four months at a gem accelerated pace. It's not for everyone.
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Post by tanisomsford on Jan 23, 2017 8:48:36 GMT
Also, to note. For stats purposes now more than anything else, as soon as I finish upgrading my haste runes, I'll come back to this and get my Vigor rune to 90,000. I'd like to see if that can offset enough to win even more when you lose a card from instakill or the first drop bullseye/chainstrike
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Post by spizz0 on Jan 23, 2017 9:48:03 GMT
Also, to note. For stats purposes now more than anything else, as soon as I finish upgrading my haste runes, I'll come back to this and get my Vigor rune to 90,000. I'd like to see if that can offset enough to win even more when you lose a card from instakill or the first drop bullseye/chainstrike Damn, have a nice time with that! I don't know if it's worth wasting such a huge amount of glory just to grant a higher win rate btw
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Post by lavep on Jan 23, 2017 10:14:56 GMT
Let's just hope igg will not change grimoire setup like they did many times with guild maps dumping down the drain months and months of building perfect deck
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Post by butte on Jan 23, 2017 11:17:58 GMT
Yes I have, but most people in the pages of this thread have been having a very hard time emotionally dealing with the alternative of grinding out ten unbound oracles. To some, that's worse than Monkeylords option. My option uses 4 unbound, 2 fa and 4 immu7-oracles and it works nearly the same way as your description.... (my way: the youtube-video postet before [this thread ]) There is no need to meld 10 unbound-oracles. Of course it stays at 10 melded oracles but the applications of fa- and immu7-oracles are much higher.
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Post by Yuna on Jan 23, 2017 15:50:26 GMT
None of the strongest of the 4-star creatures are available from the altar by design: You have to spend energy to explore for them. Of course it would screw up the balanace. What you're talking about is just making it easier for new players (or players who have not bothered to explore for them) to get them. That's not balance. LMAO!!! Oh Yuna, you are adorable dude! But perhaps you are right...that darn oracle, let me recount how many Oracles I saw in the top 100 ranking decks again...you know, since it would be a big balance issue of course. Oracle is not a PvP creature, it's a P2C creature. Unless we're talking about Guild War or any other event where HP carries over between battles, in which Oracle is actually quite a good creature.
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Post by Yuna on Jan 23, 2017 15:52:40 GMT
Also, to note. For stats purposes now more than anything else, as soon as I finish upgrading my haste runes, I'll come back to this and get my Vigor rune to 90,000. I'd like to see if that can offset enough to win even more when you lose a card from instakill or the first drop bullseye/chainstrike Damn, have a nice time with that! I don't know if it's worth wasting such a huge amount of glory just to grant a higher win rate btw It would be a complete waste to level that rune up beyond level 8 since Bless tops out at 1000 HP per casting. Any HP higher than 100000 in total will just be a liability. IIRC, the enemy hero's hero HP reduction skill isn't capped and it just inflicts a flat 1% or whatever. So if you have 110000 HP, you'll actually lose more HP per turn than if you had 100000 HP using an Oracle-based deck.
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Post by tanisomsford on Jan 23, 2017 17:33:55 GMT
Damn, have a nice time with that! I don't know if it's worth wasting such a huge amount of glory just to grant a higher win rate btw It would be a complete waste to level that rune up beyond level 8 since Bless tops out at 1000 HP per casting. Any HP higher than 100000 in total will just be a liability. IIRC, the enemy hero's hero HP reduction skill isn't capped and it just inflicts a flat 1% or whatever. So if you have 110000 HP, you'll actually lose more HP per turn than if you had 100000 HP using an Oracle-based deck. Man its like you don't even read about the stuff your talking about before posting. You haven't seen this setup, you clearly don't totally understand the math behind it. Soul eater 10 dude. Look it up...
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Post by tanisomsford on Jan 23, 2017 17:38:52 GMT
Yes I have, but most people in the pages of this thread have been having a very hard time emotionally dealing with the alternative of grinding out ten unbound oracles. To some, that's worse than Monkeylords option. My option uses 4 unbound, 2 fa and 4 immu7-oracles and it works nearly the same way as your description.... (my way: the youtube-video postet before [this thread ]) There is no need to meld 10 unbound-oracles. Of course it stays at 10 melded oracles but the applications of fa- and immu7-oracles are much higher. That's awesome Butte! Have you seen where some of the trouble spots are with your meld mix? Everytime I put even one frost armour in the mix I lost because frozen EVERY round. It basically became dead weight. How do you approach playing the challenge with it? With immunity I found I actually NEED the chainstriker out early to do the rage damage I need to fire the blessing skill, is there a better way to work with the group you use?
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