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Post by Ƒⱳk●Herø on Apr 17, 2017 9:26:40 GMT
I wanted to create a post to go over some ways to make Fortress better to hopefully help IGG improve it for the future.
1st I want to start off my saying in order to come up with decent compromises people cant expect IGG to give them better awards or cater to their situation any more than anyone else. Ex. F2P being able to stand toe to toe with top guilds and P2P being able to completely dominate.
My personal experience was not great. While the glitches were arguably not as bad as the first fortress it felt much worse because of now quickly the attacks went. One strong or glitched deck would wipe 30 defenders out in mere minutes if not seconds. (not sure if there even was a wait between battles)
First of all the battles need to be slowed. Where's the strategy when you've lost the pillar as soon as a team arrives? Even if you sit on the game non-stop and wait for the alerts to notify you of an attack and immediately send defense, at best your 10-30 sec behind and unless its stacked with more than 10 decks you'll still be to late. But that's not to say that it should be as long as before where you could 1 card spam any deck you cant beat. Taking a guess id say the best option is to have a 1 min wait time between attacks and a 2 min travel time. 5 mins just felt to long to me. I would leave to do something else while I was waiting for the deck to get there. The travel time needs to be longer than the battle time in my opinion because it will require more team work to defend. With a 2 min travel time there and back it would require 6 players active at all times to stop someone from taking just one sector. This way if guilds are able to capture a sector they can hold it long enough to receive rewards. To many times we would capture something just to have it taken as soon as the shield wore off and then take it right back as soon as that shield wore off. With holding locations being so hard my guild chose to just keep attacking to gain individual rankings (the only worth while reward imo). This isnt health for the event because it makes many guilds angry and hinders the rewards of everyone. But what are the other options. Try to defend versus glitched decks and get an amazing 30 vile shards for 3 days of no sleep? No thanks.
The balancing between F2P and P2P is a bit more tricky to combat imo. The low gem cost to revive a deck (130 gems per deck) is very F2P friendly. Obviously P2P would abuse this but why not? They are willing to spend more to gain better rewards. Its hard to find a place for weaker guilds in this event. The top 3-5 guilds will fight over the citadel and the next 5-15 guilds will fight over credits around the citadel slowly moving outward, the weaker the guild. This is ideally how it should work but there are only about 20-30 guilds able to hold spots while the other 40 (assuming no empty guilds register) cant participate at all. This isnt fair for the weaker guilds, perhaps doing something like asgarth mentioned where it is based on GW results would help. This gives guilds the choice between guild hoping for shards or participating in Fortress which will weed out a lot of the guilds that are still growing and need those extra shards.
All of this assumes that the battle bugs are fixed because that ruined the event for me. The amount of times I lost my best deck to a warlock with a bunch of throwaway cards just made it where I had no clue if I could win a fight or not.
I look forward to hearing other ideas. Its a long shot but maybe IGG will hear us out and make a coupe of changes, because their own attempts haven't gone as well.
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Post by Sinister22✪NFS on Apr 17, 2017 10:22:57 GMT
Too much effort with not much reward for weak players like me. The guild was the only one who gave me a chance. Im lucky enough to have them around. Without them not even a single shard could have been given.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 10:57:33 GMT
We, Lighting, ended up exactly in the middle of the ranking: no 35. At our top we were able to hold 6 sectors, but often we had to start all over again. Personally i did not mind. We usually battled more or less same level decks. But for a middle ranked guild, this should have been better/easier. What about all other 35 guilds below us? They hardly kept any sectors and couldn't participate at all. That is not how competition should be organised. In normal sport leagues the big bucks usually win, but all others teams are at least competing.
Also, the rewards are non-existing. For us: 945 Fortress Credits = 3.5 VS shards = 2.625 ore = 4-5 mining days no gems involved. Which is kind of pointless.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 11:55:13 GMT
If they remove the big glitches and make it a fair event for all guild it could be something great.
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Post by Yuna on Apr 17, 2017 12:34:15 GMT
If they remove the big glitches and make it a fair event for all guild it could be something great. There is no way to make it "fair" to all guilds without making it unfair to strong guilds. Strong guilds will always have an advantage in PvP, always, unless we're no longer judging things by actual deck strength. Sure, they can fine tune the system so that it's easier to defend than having to predict where the opponent will strike next and deploy decks pre-emptively, but there's no way to make any PvP event "fair" to everyone. Because it is actually patently unfair to design a PvP event where someone with only 2-star heroes and 2-star creatures can compete with people running only 5-star heroes with 5-star creatures.
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Post by kinghits on Apr 17, 2017 12:37:42 GMT
igg should give everyone a free flare summoner again
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Post by Sinister22✪NFS on Apr 17, 2017 13:19:49 GMT
If they remove the big glitches and make it a fair event for all guild it could be something great. There is no way to make it "fair" to all guilds without making it unfair to strong guilds. Strong guilds will always have an advantage in PvP, always, unless we're no longer judging things by actual deck strength. Sure, they can fine tune the system so that it's easier to defend than having to predict where the opponent will strike next and deploy decks pre-emptively, but there's no way to make any PvP event "fair" to everyone. Because it is actually patently unfair to design a PvP event where someone with only 2-star heroes and 2-star creatures can compete with people running only 5-star heroes with 5-star creatures. I think by "fair" gesi meant that what the system should have done should have been done, because glitches and bugs helped a lot of weak decks to trash stronger decks. On the other hand your point is also correct.
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Post by highvolt4ge on Apr 17, 2017 13:22:59 GMT
I d make the whole fr more guild oriented..
Start by removing individual rankings and rewards.. improve guild ranking rewards instead...
Let the fortress credits be earned on guild level and be split up equally after the event to all guildmembers. This removes also the hassle of who sits in which pillar and people can focus on attacking/defending. This would increase the need for teamplay.
Then i d change the shrines. Eventually make a few more.. consider it a place of worship as a shrine should be.. make the rewards different.. lets say one gives faen hero/crit shards, other mortii and so on.. others give sparks, others give mats.. limit the ammount of shrines a guild can hold to one so they have to choose whats more important to the guild.. the big guild will still get to chose what they like. But this will ensure that there are more guilds able to compete for something worth their time. Also disallowing a single guild to rule it all..
Than.. the battle system.. the battling needs to be slowerpaced.. people need to have time to react to attacks.. place / swap defenses accordingly.. maybe 15 minutes after the first attacker started moving. Give enough time for attackers/defenders to join the fight. marching time should be lower ofc. 15 minutes after the first attack was launched, battle takes place in one go.. no more endless deck spamming.. successful attackers take on remaining defenders. If different guilds attack at the same time, use the order of attacks sent.. sucessful attackers from guild a) on guild b) will be placed as defenders and defend against guild c) possibly making the pillar to switch to different guilds in one go.. This will ensure a higher strategical play.. also raise the usefulness of scouting.. is it a fake attack to draw the defenders to pillar a) while pillar b) is the real target?
I think these changes would make fortress raid a much better and enjoyable event for everyone. And being slowerpaced fits a mobile game much better.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 14:39:33 GMT
igg should give everyone a free flare summoner again You mean give a Flare Summoner to everyone even the players who didn't participate? But what's the point of entering in the FR in first place, the sacrifices and the hard work the guild put for the event, what is for them? This is not the first FR and the reward here are non-existent.
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Post by ZanderX10 on Apr 17, 2017 16:21:28 GMT
If they remove the big glitches and make it a fair event for all guild it could be something great. There is no way to make it "fair" to all guilds without making it unfair to strong guilds. Strong guilds will always have an advantage in PvP, always, unless we're no longer judging things by actual deck strength. Sure, they can fine tune the system so that it's easier to defend than having to predict where the opponent will strike next and deploy decks pre-emptively, but there's no way to make any PvP event "fair" to everyone. Because it is actually patently unfair to design a PvP event where someone with only 2-star heroes and 2-star creatures can compete with people running only 5-star heroes with 5-star creatures. it could be made fair by making it faction based. With 4 factions (with 15-20 guilds per faction) it would only appear to be 4 competing guilds on the map. Weak guilds could get paired with strong guilds.
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Post by BK✦McNaughty on Apr 17, 2017 16:54:34 GMT
I think they should expand a few more rows of 5 credit pillars outward for more guilds to be able to participate, I wouldn't mind if the map got larger. Of course that would only work after the glitches are fixed.
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Post by Lastpak✪NFS on Apr 17, 2017 17:35:56 GMT
I wanted to create a post to go over some ways to make Fortress better to hopefully help IGG improve it for the future. You are a very optimistic person.
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Post by ZanderX10 on Apr 17, 2017 18:11:30 GMT
There is no way to make it "fair" to all guilds without making it unfair to strong guilds. Strong guilds will always have an advantage in PvP, always, unless we're no longer judging things by actual deck strength. Sure, they can fine tune the system so that it's easier to defend than having to predict where the opponent will strike next and deploy decks pre-emptively, but there's no way to make any PvP event "fair" to everyone. Because it is actually patently unfair to design a PvP event where someone with only 2-star heroes and 2-star creatures can compete with people running only 5-star heroes with 5-star creatures. it could be made fair by making it faction based. With 4 factions (with 15-20 guilds per faction) it would only appear to be 4 competing guilds on the map. Weak guilds could get paired with strong guilds. if this seems like it would be too little competition you could just as well make it 10 teams of 7. Still much less of a cluster f*** than 70 guild ffa.
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Post by rembrandt78 on Apr 17, 2017 20:40:44 GMT
Your asking this..of a company that puts troll Scout in its booster packs. .
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Post by Yuna on Apr 17, 2017 21:21:49 GMT
There is no way to make it "fair" to all guilds without making it unfair to strong guilds. Strong guilds will always have an advantage in PvP, always, unless we're no longer judging things by actual deck strength. Sure, they can fine tune the system so that it's easier to defend than having to predict where the opponent will strike next and deploy decks pre-emptively, but there's no way to make any PvP event "fair" to everyone. Because it is actually patently unfair to design a PvP event where someone with only 2-star heroes and 2-star creatures can compete with people running only 5-star heroes with 5-star creatures. it could be made fair by making it faction based. With 4 factions (with 15-20 guilds per faction) it would only appear to be 4 competing guilds on the map. Weak guilds could get paired with strong guilds. But how would that even work? Would IGG have to spend time manually seeding all participating guilds to see which ones go into each faction? Will we base it on guild wars performance, which is wildly inaccurate (during my time in Royals, we were seldom in the top 10 despite having some of the strongest players in the game. We simply did not care for Guild Wars much)? Also, how is it fair if I and my guild, as strong players, might be randomly paired up with (or due to botched seeding) subpar players to drag me down through chance and no choice of my own? How would you even manage 15-20 guilds at the same time? Rogue players would act out, it'd be impossible to work together and get strategies going. How the Hell do you get a meaningful and useful chat going during something as hectic as Fortress Raid with up to 1000 players in the same faction and who have to coordinate and work together? Or say In a Destiny gets seeded together with LostX, Kadal Hitam and Shandalar. Two Cougars gets seeded with 3 useless guilds with few active players and none of them will even listen to reason or instructions. They all either have really weak decks, act out and do their own thing with no wish to work together with others, ruining all of our plans. Or, worse, they actively sabotage our plans. Since they're not members of our guild, we can't kick them. We have no way of stopping them. I still can't get over how the definition of "fair" constantly bandied about in this discussion is "How do we get weak players and guilds to have a shot at getting free rewards, on par with those of top players/guilds?". That's not how fairness works. This "I want to be able to compete with the best without being the best" attitude is endemic to today's gaming culture in general. Of course it's not a "fair" fight when Two Cougars goes up against, No-Name Guild with 12 members. But neither is it a fair fight were I to compete i singing against Celine Dion or basketball against Kobe Bryant. I would never enter a swimming contest against Michael Phelps and then complain about how unfair the competition was and demand a slew of rule changed that handicapped Michael Phelps enough I stood a chance of winning against him. That's not a fair fight at all, that's just forcing him to abide by arbitrary rules whose only purpose it to make me, a subpar swimmer, stand a chance against him. I am a member of the competitive Super Smash Bros. community (though mostly retired). And this very attitude is so very prevalent in it. "Melee is so unbalanced and unfair because you need technical skill, mindgames and dedication to become good at it! If you don't use advanced techniques and combos, you can't win! Brawl is much more balanced because even a newbie stands a chance at beating a good player!". That's not balance. And "I want F2P guilds to be able to compete with Royal Horsemen" is not fairness. And it doesn't just exist in "Super Smash Bros.". As an active member of the anime convention circuit and a competitive gamer, I often enter tournaments. As a pretty good player of a multitude of different videogames, I also often win or place well. And simply because of my skill and dedication, there are constantly complaints about my very existence, how unfair it is that I'm allowed to compete every time and sometimes win. Why can't I just roll over and not compete so that a random person who doesn't even know how to perform anything longer than a 3-hit combo can win that "Soul Calibur" tournament? Once a misguided anime convention's organizers banned me from participating in its Super Smash Bros. Brawl tournament (despite my record at that point being 3 losses and 1 win when it came to Brawl tournaments) because of massive complaints from convention goers about how friggin' unfair it was I was so good at the game in comparison to them (i was far superior to every other attendant of that tiny convention, but I have never been even close to being a top tier Brawl player. I just have good fundamentals and midngames). A tournament meant to ascertain who the best player of the game was... where the best player was banned from competing. Friends of mine who work in the videogame rooms often tell me stories of idiots coming to them to complain about me and demand my banning from the tournaments, but thankfully no other convention has been stupid enough to follow suit (and that particular convent got endless s*** from other convention organizers for what they pulled). I am nothing but courteous to my opponents. I shake their hands, tell them good luck and thank them for the game before and after each game. But because I have the gall to be good, they view it as inherently unfair. How dare these tournaments be merit-based?! How dare they reward skill, dedication and knowledge?! I also routinely win quiz tournaments as various events, which some people are quick to complain about. How dare I have a near encyclopedic knowledge on many different subjects?! A trivia contest that rewards those that know the most? Preposterous! This is the exact same attitude translated into a TCG. "I've chosen to not spend money on this game, thus crippling my chances of building strong decks. It's my own choice, I enjoy the game enough as it is the way I play it. Oh, a new event with powerful rewards? OMG HOW UNFAIR, WHY CAN'T MY 4-STAR HERO DECKS NOT COMPETE WITH YUNA'S DECKS?!?!?!?! UNFAAAAAAAAAAAAIR. BAN! REMOVE! CHANGE! NOOOOOOOW!". Everyone has the same chance of winning regardless of skill, power and effort =/= Fair and balanced Everyone has the same chance of winning when all players are of relatively similar skill levels, power and effort = Fair and balanced
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Post by corvin on Apr 17, 2017 21:49:36 GMT
Wow. Yuna, your awesomeness just hit the sky.
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Post by aarcher on Apr 17, 2017 22:05:04 GMT
it could be made fair by making it faction based. With 4 factions (with 15-20 guilds per faction) it would only appear to be 4 competing guilds on the map. Weak guilds could get paired with strong guilds. But how would that even work? Would IGG have to spend time manually seeding all participating guilds to see which ones go into each faction? Will we base it on guild wars performance, which is wildly inaccurate (during my time in Royals, we were seldom in the top 10 despite having some of the strongest players in the game. We simply did not care for Guild Wars much)? Also, how is it fair if I and my guild, as strong players, might be randomly paired up with (or due to botched seeding) subpar players to drag me down through chance and no choice of my own? How would you even manage 15-20 guilds at the same time? Rogue players would act out, it'd be impossible to work together and get strategies going. How the Hell do you get a meaningful and useful chat going during something as hectic as Fortress Raid with up to 1000 players in the same faction and who have to coordinate and work together? Or say In a Destiny gets seeded together with LostX, Kadal Hitam and Shandalar. Two Cougars gets seeded with 3 useless guilds with few active players and none of them will even listen to reason or instructions. They all either have really weak decks, act out and do their own thing with no wish to work together with others, ruining all of our plans. Or, worse, they actively sabotage our plans. Since they're not members of our guild, we can't kick them. We have no way of stopping them. I still can't get over how the definition of "fair" constantly bandied about in this discussion is "How do we get weak players and guilds to have a shot at getting free rewards, on par with those of top players/guilds?". That's not how fairness works. This "I want to be able to compete with the best without being the best" attitude is endemic to today's gaming culture in general. Of course it's not a "fair" fight when Two Cougars goes up against, No-Name Guild with 12 members. But neither is it a fair fight were I to compete i singing against Celine Dion or basketball against Kobe Bryant. I would never enter a swimming contest against Michael Phelps and then complain about how unfair the competition was and demand a slew of rule changed that handicapped Michael Phelps enough I stood a chance of winning against him. That's not a fair fight at all, that's just forcing him to abide by arbitrary rules whose only purpose it to make me, a subpar swimmer, stand a chance against him. I am a member of the competitive Super Smash Bros. community (though mostly retired). And this very attitude is so very prevalent in it. "Melee is so unbalanced and unfair because you need technical skill, mindgames and dedication to become good at it! If you don't use advanced techniques and combos, you can't win! Brawl is much more balanced because even a newbie stands a chance at beating a good player!". That's not balance. And "I want F2P guilds to be able to compete with Royal Horsemen" is not fairness. And it doesn't just exist in "Super Smash Bros.". As an active member of the anime convention circuit and a competitive gamer, I often enter tournaments. As a pretty good player of a multitude of different videogames, I also often win or place well. And simply because of my skill and dedication, there are constantly complaints about my very existence, how unfair it is that I'm allowed to compete every time and sometimes win. Why can't I just roll over and not compete so that random person who doesn't even know how to perform anything longer than a 3-hit combo can win that "Soul Calibur" tournament? Once misguided anime convention banned me from participating in its Super Smash Bros. Brawl tournament (despite my record at that point being 3 losses and 1 win when it came to Brawl tournaments) because of massive complaints from convention goers about how friggin' unfair it was I was so good at the game in comparison to them. A tournament meant to ascertain who the best player of the game was... where the best player was banned from competing. Friends of mine who work in the videogame rooms often tell me stories of idiots coming to them to complain about me and demand my banning from the tournaments, but thankfully no other convention has been stupid enough to follow suit (and that particular convent got endless s*** from other convention organizers for what they pulled). I am nothing but courteous to my opponents. I shake their hands, tell them good luck and thank them for the game before and after each game. But because I have the gall to be good, they view it as inherently unfair. How dare these tournaments be merit-based?! How dare they reward skill, dedication and knowledge?! I also routinely win quiz tournaments as various events, which some people are quick to complain about. How dare I have a near encyclopedic knowledge on many different subjects?! A trivia contest that rewards those that know the most? Preposterous! This is the exact same attitude translated into a TCG. "I've chosen to not spend money on this game, thus crippling my chances of building strong decks. It's my own choice, I enjoy the game enough as it is the way I play it. Oh, a new event with powerful rewards? OMG HOW UNFAIR, WHY CAN'T MY 4-STAR HERO DECKS NOT COMPETE WITH YUNA'S DECKS?!?!?!?! UNFAAAAAAAAAAAAIR. BAN! REMOVE! CHANGE! NOOOOOOOW!". Everyone has the same chance of winning regardless of skill, power and effort =/= Fair and balanced Completely agree with the first part. Completely disagree with the rest. No one is saying that weaker players should get even rewards. No one is saying that weaker players should be competing at the same level as stronger players. Just because we want a fair shot, doesn't mean it will be unfair for the bigger players. I said it before, and will repeat again: why must everything be so black and white with you? Your examples are a fine example. Just because 1 can't sing like Celine Dion, doesn't mean that person shouldn't be able to have a singing carreer at all. Just at a lower level, with perhaps less fame and lower earnings. If 1 can't play basketball like Kobe, it can still mean that the player plays for a lower team in the league. Again: less recognition and lower earnings, but still competitive in their own way. Compare it with a sports league. The bottom teams mostly don't stand a chance against the big teams, which is rightly so. But at least they should be able to fight it out at the bottom of the table, to battle at an even level (bottom team vs bottom team). FR is nothing like that. It's basically the bottom team against the top team over and over again all season long. All we fought against were guilds like Lostx and Destiny All we want is just a little piece of the pie (even if its like a crumble). But I guess us none/low spenders, whom sacrifice plenty of our daily time on this game, don't deserve that. Anyways, if this is going to continue: have fun with this game in a couple of months, with just the big spending player-base left, knowing that you've spent thousands of dollars on this game.
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Post by ZanderX10 on Apr 17, 2017 22:19:48 GMT
YunaThis has been done in elemental kingdoms which was partly ripped off by igg for deck heroes. It worked just fine. You can argue all you want about how it would be too hard to do but the fact remains it has been done. Kingdom war took place every week and stayed pretty balanced faction wise. And that was with guild being able to pick which faction they wanted to play on. It's already tried and tested.
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Post by Yuna on Apr 17, 2017 22:29:38 GMT
But how would that even work? Would IGG have to spend time manually seeding all participating guilds to see which ones go into each faction? Will we base it on guild wars performance, which is wildly inaccurate (during my time in Royals, we were seldom in the top 10 despite having some of the strongest players in the game. We simply did not care for Guild Wars much)? Also, how is it fair if I and my guild, as strong players, might be randomly paired up with (or due to botched seeding) subpar players to drag me down through chance and no choice of my own? How would you even manage 15-20 guilds at the same time? Rogue players would act out, it'd be impossible to work together and get strategies going. How the Hell do you get a meaningful and useful chat going during something as hectic as Fortress Raid with up to 1000 players in the same faction and who have to coordinate and work together? Or say In a Destiny gets seeded together with LostX, Kadal Hitam and Shandalar. Two Cougars gets seeded with 3 useless guilds with few active players and none of them will even listen to reason or instructions. They all either have really weak decks, act out and do their own thing with no wish to work together with others, ruining all of our plans. Or, worse, they actively sabotage our plans. Since they're not members of our guild, we can't kick them. We have no way of stopping them. I still can't get over how the definition of "fair" constantly bandied about in this discussion is "How do we get weak players and guilds to have a shot at getting free rewards, on par with those of top players/guilds?". That's not how fairness works. This "I want to be able to compete with the best without being the best" attitude is endemic to today's gaming culture in general. Of course it's not a "fair" fight when Two Cougars goes up against, No-Name Guild with 12 members. But neither is it a fair fight were I to compete i singing against Celine Dion or basketball against Kobe Bryant. I would never enter a swimming contest against Michael Phelps and then complain about how unfair the competition was and demand a slew of rule changed that handicapped Michael Phelps enough I stood a chance of winning against him. That's not a fair fight at all, that's just forcing him to abide by arbitrary rules whose only purpose it to make me, a subpar swimmer, stand a chance against him. I am a member of the competitive Super Smash Bros. community (though mostly retired). And this very attitude is so very prevalent in it. "Melee is so unbalanced and unfair because you need technical skill, mindgames and dedication to become good at it! If you don't use advanced techniques and combos, you can't win! Brawl is much more balanced because even a newbie stands a chance at beating a good player!". That's not balance. And "I want F2P guilds to be able to compete with Royal Horsemen" is not fairness. And it doesn't just exist in "Super Smash Bros.". As an active member of the anime convention circuit and a competitive gamer, I often enter tournaments. As a pretty good player of a multitude of different videogames, I also often win or place well. And simply because of my skill and dedication, there are constantly complaints about my very existence, how unfair it is that I'm allowed to compete every time and sometimes win. Why can't I just roll over and not compete so that random person who doesn't even know how to perform anything longer than a 3-hit combo can win that "Soul Calibur" tournament? Once misguided anime convention banned me from participating in its Super Smash Bros. Brawl tournament (despite my record at that point being 3 losses and 1 win when it came to Brawl tournaments) because of massive complaints from convention goers about how friggin' unfair it was I was so good at the game in comparison to them. A tournament meant to ascertain who the best player of the game was... where the best player was banned from competing. Friends of mine who work in the videogame rooms often tell me stories of idiots coming to them to complain about me and demand my banning from the tournaments, but thankfully no other convention has been stupid enough to follow suit (and that particular convent got endless s*** from other convention organizers for what they pulled). I am nothing but courteous to my opponents. I shake their hands, tell them good luck and thank them for the game before and after each game. But because I have the gall to be good, they view it as inherently unfair. How dare these tournaments be merit-based?! How dare they reward skill, dedication and knowledge?! I also routinely win quiz tournaments as various events, which some people are quick to complain about. How dare I have a near encyclopedic knowledge on many different subjects?! A trivia contest that rewards those that know the most? Preposterous! This is the exact same attitude translated into a TCG. "I've chosen to not spend money on this game, thus crippling my chances of building strong decks. It's my own choice, I enjoy the game enough as it is the way I play it. Oh, a new event with powerful rewards? OMG HOW UNFAIR, WHY CAN'T MY 4-STAR HERO DECKS NOT COMPETE WITH YUNA'S DECKS?!?!?!?! UNFAAAAAAAAAAAAIR. BAN! REMOVE! CHANGE! NOOOOOOOW!". Everyone has the same chance of winning regardless of skill, power and effort =/= Fair and balanced Completely agree with the first part. Completely disagree with the rest. No one is saying that weaker players should get even rewards. No one is saying that weaker players should be competing at the same level as stronger players. Just because we want a fair shot, doesn't mean it will be unfair for the bigger players. I said it before, and will repeat again: why must everything be so black and white with you? Your examples are a fine example. Just because 1 can't sing like Celine Dion, doesn't mean that person shouldn't be able to have a singing carreer at all. Just at a lower level, with perhaps less fame and lower earnings. If 1 can't play basketball like Kobe, it can still mean that the player plays for a lower team in the league. Again: less recognition and lower earnings, but still competitive in their own way. Compare it with a sports league. The bottom teams mostly don't stand a chance against the big teams, which is rightly so. But at least they should be able to fight it out at the bottom of the table, to battle at an even level (bottom team vs bottom team). FR is nothing like that. It's basically the bottom team against the top team over and over again all season long. All we fought against were guilds like Lostx and Destiny All we want is just a little piece of the pie (even if its like a crumble). But I guess us none/low spenders, whom sacrifice plenty of our daily time on this game, don't deserve that. Anyways, if this is going to continue: have fun with this game in a couple of months, with just the big spending player-base left, knowing that you've spent thousands of dollars on this game. Have you, you know, read some of the suggestions in this thread on how to solve the issue of "unfairness" when it comes to Fortress Raid? Almost all of them would give weaker guilds and players the same shot as strong players. And most of the complaints are, in fact, not that it's hard to for guilds of the same strength to fight each other, it's about how F2P guilds don't stand a chance against top guilds. All you fought against in this Fortress Raid were LostX because LostX were all over the place (because they'd sometimes lose staked out territories, often to In a Destiny, and therefore have to expand elsewhere) and In a Destiny because In a Destiny (seemingly), knowing they would likely never be able to hold the Citadel because of Two Cougars, chose to instead focus on Fortress (Rank) Points, both personal and guild-wide, so they spent most of Fortress Raid walking around actively targeting weaker guilds for easy points (and they succeeded in their endeavour). Sure, they mostly focused their efforts on Two Cougars, but I also saw them go after random guilds and take random territories that they immediately abandoned. I can only assume it was for the ranking points (and most of the personal Top 10 ranks were made up of In a Destiny members, IIRC). There's a reason why you never fought against Two Cougars. We didn't actively hunt for fortress ranking points 'til close to the end of the event just to boost some ranks for sparks instead of spending most of the event doing it. The only times we attacked other guilds were when they attacked us and tried to take our claimed shrines and/our the Citadel. To cut off their access to the middle, we'd actively hunt them down and wipe them off the face of the map as well as we could, forcing to start all over from the rim. We were perfectly happy to sit on what we had and defend it. The easiest solution to combat this problem you have with Fortress Raid is to do away with Fortress Points for attacking altogether. Make all ranking points defense based. You only get points if you manage to defend territories. That eliminates the vested interest in actively attacking guilds for no reason than just to attack them. They routinely attacked random guilds for points and then just abandoned the territories they took because they had no interest in them. Send IGG a bug report and suggest this solution to them. It'll solve your problem. Now the goal is to instead hold onto what you have and defend it for rank rewards. And there'll be no vested interest for top tier guilds to target weak guilds unless they just want to be d***s.
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Post by Yuna on Apr 17, 2017 22:30:39 GMT
Yuna This has been done in elemental kingdoms which was partly ripped off by igg for deck heroes. It worked just fine. You can argue all you want about how it would be too hard to do but the fact remains it has been done. Kingdom war took place every week and stayed pretty balanced faction wise. And that was with guild being able to pick which faction they wanted to play on. It's already tried and tested. I don't play Elemental Kingdoms. I'm gonna need more than your word for it. What exactly are the rules for these allegedly balanced Fortress Raid-like events? Also, what's to stop the strongest guilds from banding together by choosing the same faction and then still crushing all weaker guilds?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 22:43:59 GMT
Yuna, I love your post. Gamers complaining about unfairness... go play Russian Roulette. Very fair and balanced.
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Post by ZanderX10 on Apr 17, 2017 22:49:38 GMT
Yuna This has been done in elemental kingdoms which was partly ripped off by igg for deck heroes. It worked just fine. You can argue all you want about how it would be too hard to do but the fact remains it has been done. Kingdom war took place every week and stayed pretty balanced faction wise. And that was with guild being able to pick which faction they wanted to play on. It's already tried and tested. I don't play Elemental Kingdoms. I'm gonna need more than your word for it. What exactly are the rules for these allegedly balanced Fortress Raid-like events? Also, what's to stop the strongest guilds from banding together by choosing the same faction and then still crushing all weaker guilds? Kingdom War- These occur every week. The war takes place on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday from 11 am to noon. Members cannot leave the clan during this period and the clan must he registered to fight (currency for this registration fee is gained by winning and losing arena matches). When it's not taking place a shop will appear. Card currency here is gained by winning and losing matches in KW, with total higher card hp giving more credit. Ai opponents are at a level lower than the player. It's advised that lower players not defend since they run the risk of facing a much higher leveled human opponent. human opponents can also show up if fighting over grey territory. If a player loses 3 times, a 6 minute cooldown timer will appear. Any losses to hero and card hp will carry over, so healing and recycling cards can be extra useful. Every clan who is of the same element is on the same side and base nodes cannot be attacked until a certain time (it's been recently set to the last 10 minutes.) If the base node is captured, the entire element will be deactivated for the round. Points based on node values are given every 5 minutes. The leader can spend arena credit for a boost in hp and att. KW will rarely have double merit event special. The game will automatically switch over to your kw deck when you're here. ^^^Found on a forum^^^ Essentially the factions stayed balanced even though guilds could select their faction because of guild competitiveness. This guild didn't like that guild so they wanted to f*** them over. That guild ll didn't like the another guild so they go amother faction and so on. The kingdom war map wasn't as big as the Fortress raid but honestly that just gives guilds more room to move around. You start at a home base which cannot be taken by another faction until the last 10 minutes of the day (could be changed for fortress raid since the event timing is different). Factiins then try to take over the map.
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Post by icezaius on Apr 17, 2017 22:54:11 GMT
I really like HighVs idea about the different shrines with specific type items in them. That would be pretty cool. Also agree that the atk/defense timer needs tweaking. Should be slightly longer (maybe 30sec?) between battles,and the marching times need decreased so also. One big annoyance that could easily be rectified is the 5min return time after you arrive at a pillar under Protection. Decreased marching time would solve a lot of this I think.
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Post by ZanderX10 on Apr 17, 2017 22:59:13 GMT
I mention elemental kingdoms because it is a game that came before deck heroes (already ran it's whole lifetime and closed servers) by another company. It had cards that are verbatim deck heroes creatures. Not just a couple. I mean every base game dh card was from ek.when dh launched it was nothing but ek cards with different artwork. Hippolyta... she's a 4star. So is dahlia. They had the same factions. Even had runes. Same explore map style, mazes, etc. Deck heroes came from that game. The raid could too.
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Post by kinghits on Apr 17, 2017 23:04:32 GMT
Hey how about this idea all the guild and players that have registered in fortress raid has to skip next fortress raid and let hope none of the top guild get to register and all the weaker guild register leaving out all the top guild I thiink thats is a fair and really good idea. let see how they like watching other giuld battle it out for the citadel.
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Post by NFS✪Grandfather on Apr 17, 2017 23:48:50 GMT
You people really have to much free time
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Post by rembrandt78 on Apr 18, 2017 1:50:02 GMT
My god there are some friking long Time magazine like paragraphs on this tread. Lol. Delving on to economics social classes ect..this beats facebook any day
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Post by icezaius on Apr 18, 2017 1:57:32 GMT
Hey how about this idea all the guild and players that have registered in fortress raid has to skip next fortress raid and let hope none of the top guild get to register and all the weaker guild register leaving out all the top guild I thiink thats is a fair and really good idea. let see how they like watching other giuld battle it out for the citadel. this makes no sense....
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Post by Sinister22✪NFS on Apr 18, 2017 2:38:38 GMT
Hey how about this idea all the guild and players that have registered in fortress raid has to skip next fortress raid and let hope none of the top guild get to register and all the weaker guild register leaving out all the top guild I thiink thats is a fair and really good idea. let see how they like watching other giuld battle it out for the citadel. this makes no sense.... Yep! Will never happen... unless they accept to refund those top dogs their money. "I paid for this! Register us or else!" Kind of thing...
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Post by johnwick on Apr 18, 2017 3:09:43 GMT
Yep! Will never happen... unless they accept to refund those top dogs their money. "I paid for this! Register us or else!" Kind of thing... TBH they don't need to refund ,these p2w can hijack the game and direction of game and control in name of refunds,p2w harass everyone take refund and leave
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