#000000
255
0
508
derpy✪NFS
834
April 2015
derpy
|
Post by derpy✪NFS on Apr 27, 2015 3:02:19 GMT
In all seriousness. I can't see any difference between these cards- and the differences there are, are in favour of Graboid.
These are the perfect cards to compare in terms of 4* to 5* in my opinion- because sweeping blow is such a hard ability to quantify. I'll include a couple of other 4* sweepers too.
Ash Beast- 610 atk, 1649 hp. Graboid- 619 atk, 1454 hp. Swordmaster- 367 atk, 1205 hp. Techno-Chief- 440 atk, 1370 hp.
Now in all of these cases they have a shared ability, so there's only 2 other abilities to compare. For the Ash Beast/Graboid comparison, unbound and stoneskin match up quite nicely- but I think most people agree that stoneskin is a far more useful ability overall- unbound is nice and all, but the difference between getting locked down once in compared to getting disposed/instakilled/retreated makes stoneskin far more useful. Then mass heal against ravage- normally mass heal would probably be a better ability, but on sweeping blow faction damage boosters are devastating. Overall, the only thing Ash Beast has against Graboid is a little higher HP, which is nice, and a shorter timer- but Graboid's 6 turn timer with stoneskin is actually great to use as a disposal buffer, so even that isn't a disadvantage.
And if you compare the stats of the other premier sweepers at 4*, you can see the insane disparity. Sure, Swordmaster has frost+magi armour combo, and Techno has bloodlust (albeit a very weak one), but the sheer base stats of Graboid coupled with a great skillset makes me wonder just how they made him into a 4* creature.
His atk is honestly higher than a lot of 5* creatures. Is he the most overpowered 4* creature, even including some of the insane guild map 6 ones?
|
|
inherit
40
0
Jun 28, 2022 14:01:22 GMT
409
Pyron
637
Feb 18, 2015 22:18:35 GMT
February 2015
pyron
|
Post by Pyron on Apr 27, 2015 3:31:20 GMT
I guess it's somewhat a compensation for weaker 4* neander line up (at least non-melded) and availability and also you get a bit far in the game. Not saying isn't not more powerful than most cards, but we always have strictly (or for the most time) better cards and this is one of the cases. At least anyone can grab graboids.
|
|
#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
0
Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
|
Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 27, 2015 4:26:55 GMT
I'd say Swordmaster is the best 4* in the game with Graboid being a close second.
There's a reason a lot of people Meld Sacrifice or Battleblow to Graboid, because Ravage isn't highly useful because not many people use Humans.
The most common Human used is Swordmaster and Graboid against a SM will both negate the Ravage and Sweeping Blow.
|
|
#000000
255
0
508
derpy✪NFS
834
April 2015
derpy
|
Post by derpy✪NFS on Apr 27, 2015 4:45:49 GMT
Yeah, you have a point on that. 1v1 SM definitely trumps Graboid. But I'm not sure it's a better card, I guess I haven't played with it melded yet though. The FA+MA is probably a slightly better combination than stoneskin/ravage, but those base stats! Nearly 800 attack at lv 15 is insanity
|
|
#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
0
Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
|
Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 27, 2015 5:57:34 GMT
Yeah, you have a point on that. 1v1 SM definitely trumps Graboid. But I'm not sure it's a better card, I guess I haven't played with it melded yet though. The FA+MA is probably a slightly better combination than stoneskin/ravage, but those base stats! Nearly 800 attack at lv 15 is insanity We can probably all agree that both Swordmaster and Graboid should be 5*s. Didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing with you at all. Graboid is an elite creature, no doubt about it.
|
|
#000000
255
0
508
derpy✪NFS
834
April 2015
derpy
|
Post by derpy✪NFS on Apr 27, 2015 6:58:14 GMT
I guess as someone else said- it was probably to help balance out neander, seeing as they really got borked for creatures. They have some killer 5*, but 4* and lower is pretty underwhelming compared to the other factions.
That being said, with how amazing spiky bits is, I'm surprised more people aren't building big neander decks. That ability can quite literally win entire battles without your creatures doing anything.
|
|
inherit
Royal
89
0
Jul 28, 2016 18:48:00 GMT
231
thundergod
396
March 2015
thundergod
|
Post by thundergod on Apr 27, 2015 7:53:59 GMT
I guess as someone else said- it was probably to help balance out neander, seeing as they really got borked for creatures. They have some killer 5*, but 4* and lower is pretty underwhelming compared to the other factions. That being said, with how amazing spiky bits is, I'm surprised more people aren't building big neander decks. That ability can quite literally win entire battles without your creatures doing anything. There's a lot of Neander decks at the high levels, although it's mainly because of their stoneskin creatures as opposed to spiky bits. Most people don't put more than 1 magic creature in their deck for the most part. Surprisingly, even though they got shafted in terms of creatures, 3 of their 4 stars are extremely good.
|
|
#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
0
Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
|
Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 27, 2015 7:55:30 GMT
I guess as someone else said- it was probably to help balance out neander, seeing as they really got borked for creatures. They have some killer 5*, but 4* and lower is pretty underwhelming compared to the other factions. That being said, with how amazing spiky bits is, I'm surprised more people aren't building big neander decks. That ability can quite literally win entire battles without your creatures doing anything. There's a lot of Neander decks at the high levels, although it's mainly because of their stoneskin creatures as opposed to spiky bits. Most people don't put more than 1 magic creature in their deck for the most part. Surprisingly, even though they got shafted in terms of creatures, 3 of their 4 stars are extremely good. Ursa Major, Panther Chief and what's the 3rd?
|
|
inherit
Royal
89
0
Jul 28, 2016 18:48:00 GMT
231
thundergod
396
March 2015
thundergod
|
Post by thundergod on Apr 27, 2015 8:00:50 GMT
There's a lot of Neander decks at the high levels, although it's mainly because of their stoneskin creatures as opposed to spiky bits. Most people don't put more than 1 magic creature in their deck for the most part. Surprisingly, even though they got shafted in terms of creatures, 3 of their 4 stars are extremely good. Ursa Major, Panther Chief and what's the 3rd? Graboid, Panther Chief, and The Twins. Ursa is quite good in hero killing decks, but he's not up with the above three because he's situational.
|
|
#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
0
Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
|
Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 27, 2015 8:03:54 GMT
Ursa Major, Panther Chief and what's the 3rd? Graboid, Panther Chief, and The Twins. Ursa is quite good in hero killing decks, but he's not up with the above three because he's situational. Yes, forgot about The Twins and Graboid. I agree with your top 3. Ursa Major is a good card, one of the few tanks Neanders have. His Stabthrough can be a hindrance against Guild Maps and Summoner Heroes, but other than that he's useful outside of only Hero Killing decks.
|
|
inherit
ℜoyal
259
0
567
ℜ★Jaegybomb
Hey, turn me back around.
1,987
April 2015
jaegybomb
Example 2
|
Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on Apr 27, 2015 8:27:08 GMT
Just wanted to say way more often than not 6 delay is a bad thing and Ravage doesn't even come close to Mass Heal in stuff like guild battles. All 3 have their uses.
|
|
inherit
ℜoyal
259
0
567
ℜ★Jaegybomb
Hey, turn me back around.
1,987
April 2015
jaegybomb
Example 2
|
Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on Apr 27, 2015 8:31:00 GMT
I'm farming up an Immunity 7 Flame Master for fun for tourney and arena attacks and taking him out on defense. Neander really do need Graboid though to make their 4*s competitive. The Twins might be overkill.
|
|
inherit
Royal
89
0
Jul 28, 2016 18:48:00 GMT
231
thundergod
396
March 2015
thundergod
|
Post by thundergod on Apr 27, 2015 8:44:34 GMT
Just wanted to say way more often than not 6 delay is a bad thing and Ravage doesn't even come close to Mass Heal in stuff like guild battles. All 3 have their uses. 6 turns isn't bad on Graboid because it has Stoneskin and might absorb some disposals that would otherwise hit other creatures. Mass Heal on the Ash Beast really isn't multitudes better than Ravage on Graboid. Either way, Graboid pretty much outclasses Ash Beast.
|
|
inherit
ℜoyal
259
0
567
ℜ★Jaegybomb
Hey, turn me back around.
1,987
April 2015
jaegybomb
Example 2
|
Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on Apr 27, 2015 8:51:04 GMT
Overall yea but not in a bunch of situations. I doubt Graboid gets more than 75 attack on average from Ravage in guild battles. What % of his attacks overall do you think hit a non-Swordmaster human without Zero Kelvin? It seems like most players hide their other decks behind Mortii and let it take the defenses.
|
|
inherit
ℜoyal
259
0
567
ℜ★Jaegybomb
Hey, turn me back around.
1,987
April 2015
jaegybomb
Example 2
|
Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on Apr 27, 2015 9:31:49 GMT
I did try to defend Bloodletter in another thread though so I might subconsciously just be a devil's advocate for the entry level 5*s.
|
|
inherit
ℜoyal
259
0
567
ℜ★Jaegybomb
Hey, turn me back around.
1,987
April 2015
jaegybomb
Example 2
|
Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on Apr 27, 2015 9:40:21 GMT
Also the chance of Ash Beast getting Seal cast on it is probably 10 times higher than getting Disposal cast on it by a manual opponent . Maybe 20.
|
|
inherit
Royal
89
0
Jul 28, 2016 18:48:00 GMT
231
thundergod
396
March 2015
thundergod
|
Post by thundergod on Apr 27, 2015 10:03:36 GMT
I did try to defend Bloodletter in another thread though so I might subconsciously just be a devil's advocate for the entry level 5*s. It's always good to discuss. However, in guild battles, Mass Heal is really only going to make a big difference on the secondary decks, which won't really have to defend anyway. The recyclers will keep cards alive in the main deck. In regular pvp situations, Balthazars are very common. Fafnirs and Royal Dragons sometimes show up. Great Mystic almost always shows up in higher level decks(big advantage for Graboid). The big thing about Ravage on Graboid is that the attack bonus will also count on the other creatures it hits. The Mass Heal can sometimes come in handy, but usually a 150 heal isn't enough at that point in the game unless your team is filled with frost armors/have high level devil hunter. For trials and explore maps, there is no question that I would rather have Ravage. Also, almost all pvp is auto and blocking a disposal(probably will happen at least once or twice) will have much more impact than blocking a seal.
|
|
inherit
40
0
Jun 28, 2022 14:01:22 GMT
409
Pyron
637
Feb 18, 2015 22:18:35 GMT
February 2015
pyron
|
Post by Pyron on Apr 27, 2015 11:09:20 GMT
To me Graboid and Swordmasters are like Sword to Plowshare and Lightning Bolts from MTG. They are super effective, but that should not bump them up a rarity level. Rather we need more core cards at lower level. The only thing questionable about Graboid is its core stats, but I guess that's a neander thing. They are usually beef up even crappy ones.
I guess Ash Beast is a bit underwhelming. Maybe if it had a higher level Mass Heal, so it could be more appealing to its 5* status. Kinda like Bloodletter having a mid level Life Sap or something different from Tit whatever the name is.
It's like Anathema being bad before the buff, now he is a fearsome 5* deserving of that status. His poison ability is distinguish enough for that now.
|
|
#0d6ad6
Human Deck Specialist
86
0
Sept 26, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
1,691
DianaTroy [βκ]
In-Game Names: DianaTroy_[BK] & BevCrusher_[BK]
2,861
March 2015
dianatroy
|
Post by DianaTroy [βκ] on Apr 27, 2015 18:22:37 GMT
Also the chance of Ash Beast getting Seal cast on it is probably 10 times higher than getting Disposal cast on it by a manual opponent . Maybe 20. Ash Beast has Unbound, no? Can't be Sealed.
|
|
inherit
106
0
Apr 19, 2016 16:28:56 GMT
121
dbreezy✪NFS
185
March 2015
dbreezy
|
Post by dbreezy✪NFS on Apr 27, 2015 20:46:57 GMT
Think jaegy is saying its more likely for an opponent to use a seal creature while ash beast is in play (aka it gets value) than to have an opponent waste a disposal on it (cause they are saving it for better cards).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
309
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 23:17:54 GMT
I'm going to guess that its not a 5* simply so that it is a little easier to get, its a card to help you get a bit farther in the game without being so common that everyone has it (even thoough a lot do have it... i dont though )
|
|
inherit
ℜoyal
259
0
567
ℜ★Jaegybomb
Hey, turn me back around.
1,987
April 2015
jaegybomb
Example 2
|
Post by ℜ★Jaegybomb on Apr 29, 2015 0:44:38 GMT
Think jaegy is saying its more likely for an opponent to use a seal creature while ash beast is in play (aka it gets value) than to have an opponent waste a disposal on it (cause they are saving it for better cards). Yep.
|
|